Re: Improving takeoff and climb.

Bradley Bormuth · Post by **Bradley Bormuth** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:43 pm

'Hello folks,

We have just completed the restoration on our 24W40; however, I must
say that the takeoff and climb I am getting leaves a lot to be
desired. I operate out of a 3000' grass strip with trees and power
lines on both ends and the takeoff (to me) seems a little too slow
(maybe even on the edge of unsafe).

The reason for posting this is I wanted to know what experiences you
guys have had in this area and anything I can do to improve my
performance. We have a Warner 165 with a Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed
pitch wood prop.

BTW, one thing in particular that I would like to know about is what
are your opnions about installing an Aeromatic prop in place of the
Sensenich?'

Steve Newing · Post by **Steve Newing** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:02 am

'Hi Brad,
Give us some number eg. airspeed, rpm, climb rate etc
Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: Bradley Bormuth
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Improving takeoff and climb.

Hello folks,

We have just completed the restoration on our 24W40; however, I must
say that the takeoff and climb I am getting leaves a lot to be
desired. I operate out of a 3000' grass strip with trees and power
lines on both ends and the takeoff (to me) seems a little too slow
(maybe even on the edge of unsafe).

The reason for posting this is I wanted to know what experiences you
guys have had in this area and anything I can do to improve my
performance. We have a Warner 165 with a Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed
pitch wood prop.

BTW, one thing in particular that I would like to know about is what
are your opnions about installing an Aeromatic prop in place of the
Sensenich?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Bob Haas · Post by **Bob Haas** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:13 am

'If you find an Aeromatic that is airworthy, you will never want a fixed
pitch prop again! Once you get it set up for your needs

It makes a new airplane. Jamie Treet might have a line one. Bob Haas.

_____

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steve Newing
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 6:02 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Improving takeoff and climb.

Hi Brad,
Give us some number eg. airspeed, rpm, climb rate etc
Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: Bradley Bormuth
To: fairchildclub@ yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Improving takeoff and climb.

Hello folks,

We have just completed the restoration on our 24W40; however, I must
say that the takeoff and climb I am getting leaves a lot to be
desired. I operate out of a 3000' grass strip with trees and power
lines on both ends and the takeoff (to me) seems a little too slow
(maybe even on the edge of unsafe).

The reason for posting this is I wanted to know what experiences you
guys have had in this area and anything I can do to improve my
performance. We have a Warner 165 with a Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed
pitch wood prop.

BTW, one thing in particular that I would like to know about is what
are your opnions about installing an Aeromatic prop in place of the
Sensenich?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

fchld · Post by **fchld** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:01 am

'Bradley,

If you can get a aeromatic it will improve the performance of the 165 Warner I believe Tarver propellers in fallon Nevada has started to make them again.

John berendt
Fairchild Club

----- Original Message -----
From: Bradley Bormuth
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Improving takeoff and climb.

Hello folks,

We have just completed the restoration on our 24W40; however, I must
say that the takeoff and climb I am getting leaves a lot to be
desired. I operate out of a 3000' grass strip with trees and power
lines on both ends and the takeoff (to me) seems a little too slow
(maybe even on the edge of unsafe).

The reason for posting this is I wanted to know what experiences you
guys have had in this area and anything I can do to improve my
performance. We have a Warner 165 with a Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed
pitch wood prop.

BTW, one thing in particular that I would like to know about is what
are your opnions about installing an Aeromatic prop in place of the
Sensenich?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

John Duncan · Post by **John Duncan** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:47 pm

'A Curtiss Reed prop will definately improve your performance!

John Duncan

>From: "Steve Newing"
>Reply-To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Improving takeoff and climb.
>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:01:50 +1000
>
>Hi Brad,
> Give us some number eg. airspeed, rpm, climb rate etc
>Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bradley Bormuth
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:38 AM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Improving takeoff and climb.
>
>
> Hello folks,
>
> We have just completed the restoration on our 24W40; however, I must
> say that the takeoff and climb I am getting leaves a lot to be
> desired. I operate out of a 3000' grass strip with trees and power
> lines on both ends and the takeoff (to me) seems a little too slow
> (maybe even on the edge of unsafe).
>
> The reason for posting this is I wanted to know what experiences you
> guys have had in this area and anything I can do to improve my
> performance. We have a Warner 165 with a Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed
> pitch wood prop.
>
> BTW, one thing in particular that I would like to know about is what
> are your opnions about installing an Aeromatic prop in place of the
> Sensenich?
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

'

ranger440c5 · Post by **ranger440c5** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:53 am

'What's the empty weight?

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Bradley Bormuth"

wrote:

>
> Hello folks,
>
> We have just completed the restoration on our 24W40; however, I

must

> say that the takeoff and climb I am getting leaves a lot to be
> desired. I operate out of a 3000' grass strip with trees and

power

> lines on both ends and the takeoff (to me) seems a little too slow
> (maybe even on the edge of unsafe).
>
> The reason for posting this is I wanted to know what experiences

you

> guys have had in this area and anything I can do to improve my
> performance. We have a Warner 165 with a Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed
> pitch wood prop.
>
> BTW, one thing in particular that I would like to know about is

what

> are your opnions about installing an Aeromatic prop in place of

the

> Sensenich?
>

'

Bradley Bormuth · Post by **Bradley Bormuth** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:15 pm

'Hello all,

Thank you for your interest. In response to the questions about the
performance and other specifications about the plane, I have prepared
the following--but I can't remember the exact figures, so please take
that into account:

I will walk you through the takeoff procedure we do.
Add full power once aligned with the runway. The engine is turning
1850 rpm if I can remember correctly. Push the stick full forward
until the tail leaves the ground. Smoothly pull the stick back to
maintain a slightly tail high attitude while keeping the tail off the
ground. Once the plane lifts off (~1000 ft), keep in ground effect
until 70mph and climb out at 70mph (300-400fpm) until clear of the
trees (or other obsticle) then accelerate to 80mph (~500fpm) and
continue climbing. By this point, the engine is turning about 2000
rpm.

Here are a few numbers from the current configuration of the airplane:
Empty weight: 1797.98 lbs @ 19.82"
Warner 165 (R500-7)
Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed pitch wood prop

Thank you for your help
Brad

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Newing"
wrote:

>
> Hi Brad,
> Give us some number eg. airspeed, rpm, climb rate etc
> Steve

'

Chief Russell · Post by **Chief Russell** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:28 am

'What is your field elevation of your airport-? Density altitude affects
performance a great deal, including jets, but more especially our older
limited powered airplanes. Don't try to force the airplane in the air as it
fly when it is ready, given everything else is normal, takeoff power, etc.,
she will fly.
Our Continental powered 24W is quite limited in the power department,
especially in the summer months in Kansas. However; it will fly when it is
ready; my partner is one of these "Git R done" pilots and is working on
gaining patience with our 1946 F24 when he is not in his 310D.
Proper pitch, length, etc., can be experimented with some and I am
inclined to get one of the wood props Jamie has suggested from the Dude in
Oklahoma to see if we can gain some climb performance. Wish the weather had
cooperated last weekend so I could have joined you other Fairchild folks in
Poplar Grove.

Fly safe

Dick Russell, N81229

-----Original Message-----
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of ranger440c5
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:52 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Improving takeoff and climb.

What's the empty weight?

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Bradley Bormuth"

wrote:

>
> Hello folks,
>
> We have just completed the restoration on our 24W40; however, I

must

> say that the takeoff and climb I am getting leaves a lot to be
> desired. I operate out of a 3000' grass strip with trees and

power

> lines on both ends and the takeoff (to me) seems a little too slow
> (maybe even on the edge of unsafe).
>
> The reason for posting this is I wanted to know what experiences

you

> guys have had in this area and anything I can do to improve my
> performance. We have a Warner 165 with a Sensenich W86CA-67 fixed
> pitch wood prop.
>
> BTW, one thing in particular that I would like to know about is

what

> are your opnions about installing an Aeromatic prop in place of

the

> Sensenich?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Bradley Bormuth · Post by **Bradley Bormuth** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:12 pm

'Dick,

We have been flying out of an airport at 1020 feet MSL. I think the
issue may be with the prop. If i'm not mistaken we have a prop
pitched for cruise and that would be why we can't achieve full power
at takeoff (although 1850 rpm sounds very low even for that).

Brad.

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Chief Russell"
wrote:

>
> What is your field elevation of your airport-? Density altitude

affects

> performance a great deal, including jets, but more especially our

older

> limited powered airplanes. Don't try to force the airplane in the

air as it

> fly when it is ready, given everything else is normal, takeoff

power, etc.,

> she will fly.
> Our Continental powered 24W is quite limited in the power

department,

> especially in the summer months in Kansas. However; it will fly

when it is

> ready; my partner is one of these "Git R done" pilots and is

working on

> gaining patience with our 1946 F24 when he is not in his 310D.
> Proper pitch, length, etc., can be experimented with some and

I am

> inclined to get one of the wood props Jamie has suggested from the

Dude in

> Oklahoma to see if we can gain some climb performance. Wish the

weather had

> cooperated last weekend so I could have joined you other Fairchild

folks in

> Poplar Grove.
>
> Fly safe
>
> Dick Russell, N81229

'

Robert Webster · Post by **Robert Webster** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:15 pm

'Brad,

The following is from the type certificate for the W-165. Item 108 refers
to a fixed pitch wood prop. If that is what you have it sounds like your
static RPM is in the ball park. That is if you are at 1850 prior to brake
release.

RRW

Propeller limits (With Item 108)
Landplane: Static rpm at maximum permissible throttle setting, not over
1925, not under 1825. No additional tolerance permitted.
Diameter: Not over 86 in., not under 83 in.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley Bormuth"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Improving takeoff and climb.

> Dick,
>
> We have been flying out of an airport at 1020 feet MSL. I think the
> issue may be with the prop. If i'm not mistaken we have a prop
> pitched for cruise and that would be why we can't achieve full power
> at takeoff (although 1850 rpm sounds very low even for that).
>
> Brad.
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Chief Russell"
> wrote:
>>
>> What is your field elevation of your airport-? Density altitude
> affects
>> performance a great deal, including jets, but more especially our
> older
>> limited powered airplanes. Don't try to force the airplane in the
> air as it
>> fly when it is ready, given everything else is normal, takeoff
> power, etc.,
>> she will fly.
>> Our Continental powered 24W is quite limited in the power
> department,
>> especially in the summer months in Kansas. However; it will fly
> when it is
>> ready; my partner is one of these "Git R done" pilots and is
> working on
>> gaining patience with our 1946 F24 when he is not in his 310D.
>> Proper pitch, length, etc., can be experimented with some and
> I am
>> inclined to get one of the wood props Jamie has suggested from the
> Dude in
>> Oklahoma to see if we can gain some climb performance. Wish the
> weather had
>> cooperated last weekend so I could have joined you other Fairchild
> folks in
>> Poplar Grove.
>>
>> Fly safe
>>
>> Dick Russell, N81229
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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'