Re: Landing gear universal's

[cagog]

'I dont want to start people fighting but I would like to get
anyones opinion about glue for aircraft. Mostly I am looking for
info on any epoxy that you may have used. And if you did a 337 for
it or just kept it quiet. So please anyone have at this subject'

[Tom Downey]

'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "cagog" wrote:

>
>
> I dont want to start people fighting but I would like to get
> anyones opinion about glue for aircraft. Mostly I am looking for
> info on any epoxy that you may have used. And if you did a 337 for
> it or just kept it quiet. So please anyone have at this subject

Chaper 1 in the AC 43-13,1b includes EPOXY as an approved adhesive,
read and follow the AC for the best results.

I have used T-88, and several other marine epoxies, all work well,
when the directions are followed.'

[Jamie S. Treat]

'Fairchild owners.

Below is a summary of Glue requirements/specifications. I prepared
this for one of my customers that is rebuilding a 1933 YKC Waco.

SUMMARY:

The only glues that comply with Fed Spec or Mil Spec are:

Weldwood Plastic Resin, Acft Spruce P/N 0203 or P/N 0204 complies
with MMM-A-188B Type II.

Weldwood Resorcinol, Acft Spruce P/N 0227, complies with MIL-A-46051
and Mil-A-22397.

T-88 does not comply, experimental purposes

West System does not comply, experimental Purposes.

The current issue of AC 41.13-1B Chg 1 dictates in Parg 1-4a (4) the
Fed Spec MMM-A-181D and MIL-A-22397.

I called the Aviat (Pitts) factory. They are currently using
Weldwood Plastic Resin.

I called West Systems. They have not tested there adhesives per Fed
Spec or Mil Spec. Have no intention. Support marine use only.

The Waco Factory is currently using West System 105 Resin, 206 Slow
Hardener, and 403 Fiber Filler on a FAA Variance to the approved
engineering. They did there own structural tests to satisfy the FAA.

I spoke with Mary Heilman (New Waco), they have the FAA Type Cert
approval on the New Waco's. They also use it for the restoration
work under Repair Station sign off. They have set the precedence for
West System. They have not heard anything from the FAA about the FAA
restriction of West System (Epoxy)use. This was a rumor going around
a few months ago. I asked if I could get a copy of there FAA
approval paperwork. The FAA will not allow them to distribute the
FAA variance and test results. But we can reference on the FAA 337
that the Waco Factory has been approved to use West Systems. Then
the FAA can get the data from in-house.

My Suggestion is: Use West Systems, 2nd choice would be T-88. I
would have the A&P/IA create a FAA 337 in advance and submit for
Block 3 approval. I have used both products with excellant results.
I also maintain tight tolerances between wood members to reduce the
glue filler. This is a standard for the older type glues. Better
workmanship.

Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Kelly Airpark
Elbert, CO 80106
HM/Shop 303-648-0130

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Downey" wrote:
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "cagog" wrote:
> >
> >
> > I dont want to start people fighting but I would like to get
> > anyones opinion about glue for aircraft. Mostly I am looking for
> > info on any epoxy that you may have used. And if you did a 337
for
> > it or just kept it quiet. So please anyone have at this subject
>
> Chaper 1 in the AC 43-13,1b includes EPOXY as an approved
adhesive,
> read and follow the AC for the best results.
>
> I have used T-88, and several other marine epoxies, all work well,
> when the directions are followed.

'

[Tom Downey]

'Do you know of any epoxy glues that meet Fed
Spec or Mil Spec?'

[Michael Denest]

'Epoxy is an ACCEPTABLE adhesive provided it complies
with the noted MIL SPEC standards listed in the
paragraph. Data supporting your repair must be
provided to your local FSDO inspector for approval
prior to commencing repairs. T-88 meets these
standards.

Mike Denest


--- Tom Downey wrote:

>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "cagog"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I dont want to start people fighting but I
> would like to get
> > anyones opinion about glue for aircraft. Mostly I
> am looking for
> > info on any epoxy that you may have used. And if
> you did a 337 for
> > it or just kept it quiet. So please anyone have at
> this subject
>
> Chaper 1 in the AC 43-13,1b includes EPOXY as an
> approved adhesive,
> read and follow the AC for the best results.
>
> I have used T-88, and several other marine epoxies,
> all work well,
> when the directions are followed.
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com'

[Chief Russell]

'Does it necessarily 'have' to meet MIL SPEC since some were UC61 and some
were F24 airplanes-? Use whatever is the advantage I say and you will
probably find little tech support from the local FSDO. From the recent
postings, it seems that folks are on the correct track - whatever works and
can be approved.

One might try White aero for some info in Ohio as I now that he does
Stearman repairs and rebuilds.

fly safe

Dick Russell, N81229

check www.russellaire.com and Fly Safe

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Denest [mailto:mjd12k@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 5:54 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: wood glue


Epoxy is an ACCEPTABLE adhesive provided it complies
with the noted MIL SPEC standards listed in the
paragraph. Data supporting your repair must be
provided to your local FSDO inspector for approval
prior to commencing repairs. T-88 meets these
standards.

Mike Denest


--- Tom Downey wrote:

>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "cagog"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I dont want to start people fighting but I
> would like to get
> > anyones opinion about glue for aircraft. Mostly I
> am looking for
> > info on any epoxy that you may have used. And if
> you did a 337 for
> > it or just kept it quiet. So please anyone have at
> this subject
>
> Chaper 1 in the AC 43-13,1b includes EPOXY as an
> approved adhesive,
> read and follow the AC for the best results.
>
> I have used T-88, and several other marine epoxies,
> all work well,
> when the directions are followed.
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
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Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

[harry hayman]

'Hi Guy's
Some info'please.
I have a set of upper and lower landing gear
universal's.which are bushed for a #6 bolt.They have
FS111 markings.Does anyons know if they comply with
the AD that requires replacement?
Harry
F24R9
Ser.300
20619









--- "Jamie S. Treat" wrote:

>
> Fairchild owners.
>
> Below is a summary of Glue
> requirements/specifications. I prepared
> this for one of my customers that is rebuilding a
> 1933 YKC Waco.
>
> SUMMARY:
>
> The only glues that comply with Fed Spec or Mil Spec
> are:
>
> Weldwood Plastic Resin, Acft Spruce P/N 0203 or P/N
> 0204 complies
> with MMM-A-188B Type II.
>
> Weldwood Resorcinol, Acft Spruce P/N 0227, complies
> with MIL-A-46051
> and Mil-A-22397.
>
> T-88 does not comply, experimental purposes
>
> West System does not comply, experimental Purposes.
>
> The current issue of AC 41.13-1B Chg 1 dictates in
> Parg 1-4a (4) the
> Fed Spec MMM-A-181D and MIL-A-22397.
>
> I called the Aviat (Pitts) factory. They are
> currently using
> Weldwood Plastic Resin.
>
> I called West Systems. They have not tested there
> adhesives per Fed
> Spec or Mil Spec. Have no intention. Support marine
> use only.
>
> The Waco Factory is currently using West System 105
> Resin, 206 Slow
> Hardener, and 403 Fiber Filler on a FAA Variance to
> the approved
> engineering. They did there own structural tests to
> satisfy the FAA.
>
> I spoke with Mary Heilman (New Waco), they have the
> FAA Type Cert
> approval on the New Waco's. They also use it for the
> restoration
> work under Repair Station sign off. They have set
> the precedence for
> West System. They have not heard anything from the
> FAA about the FAA
> restriction of West System (Epoxy)use. This was a
> rumor going around
> a few months ago. I asked if I could get a copy of
> there FAA
> approval paperwork. The FAA will not allow them to
> distribute the
> FAA variance and test results. But we can reference
> on the FAA 337
> that the Waco Factory has been approved to use West
> Systems. Then
> the FAA can get the data from in-house.
>
> My Suggestion is: Use West Systems, 2nd choice would
> be T-88. I
> would have the A&P/IA create a FAA 337 in advance
> and submit for
> Block 3 approval. I have used both products with
> excellant results.
> I also maintain tight tolerances between wood
> members to reduce the
> glue filler. This is a standard for the older type
> glues. Better
> workmanship.
>
> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
> Aircraft Restoration & Repair
> 24201 David C. Johnson Loop
> Kelly Airpark
> Elbert, CO 80106
> HM/Shop 303-648-0130
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Downey"
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "cagog"
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I dont want to start people fighting but I
> would like to get
> > > anyones opinion about glue for aircraft. Mostly
> I am looking for
> > > info on any epoxy that you may have used. And if
> you did a 337
> for
> > > it or just kept it quiet. So please anyone have
> at this subject
> >
> > Chaper 1 in the AC 43-13,1b includes EPOXY as an
> approved
> adhesive,
> > read and follow the AC for the best results.
> >
> > I have used T-88, and several other marine
> epoxies, all work well,
> > when the directions are followed.
>
>
>
>

=====
Harry Hayman
Phone 904-284-4276
Fax 904-284-3869



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com'

[Jamie S. Treat]

'Harry,

The FS111 is the type of material spec called out on the Drawings 3328 and
3330. Compare your unversal's to the drawings on the CD Rom. If they appear
to have the same appearance as the drawing then you have the older style.
The AD note applies. The newer style, and very few are out there, are totaly
differant in appearance. They are much larger in diameter. I have photos of
both, side by side. The photos are on a different PC, will have it back on
line in 24 hours. I can send you photos to your email account.

Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Kelly Airpark
Elbert, CO 80106
HM/Shop 303-648-0130

----- Original Message -----
From: "harry hayman"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 1:41 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Landing gear universal's


>
> Hi Guy's
> Some info'please.
> I have a set of upper and lower landing gear
> universal's.which are bushed for a #6 bolt.They have
> FS111 markings.Does anyons know if they comply with
> the AD that requires replacement?
> Harry
> F24R9
> Ser.300
> 20619
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- "Jamie S. Treat" wrote:
>
>>
>> Fairchild owners.
>>
>> Below is a summary of Glue
>> requirements/specifications. I prepared
>> this for one of my customers that is rebuilding a
>> 1933 YKC Waco.
>>
>> SUMMARY:
>>
>> The only glues that comply with Fed Spec or Mil Spec
>> are:
>>
>> Weldwood Plastic Resin, Acft Spruce P/N 0203 or P/N
>> 0204 complies
>> with MMM-A-188B Type II.
>>
>> Weldwood Resorcinol, Acft Spruce P/N 0227, complies
>> with MIL-A-46051
>> and Mil-A-22397.
>>
>> T-88 does not comply, experimental purposes
>>
>> West System does not comply, experimental Purposes.
>>
>> The current issue of AC 41.13-1B Chg 1 dictates in
>> Parg 1-4a (4) the
>> Fed Spec MMM-A-181D and MIL-A-22397.
>>
>> I called the Aviat (Pitts) factory. They are
>> currently using
>> Weldwood Plastic Resin.
>>
>> I called West Systems. They have not tested there
>> adhesives per Fed
>> Spec or Mil Spec. Have no intention. Support marine
>> use only.
>>
>> The Waco Factory is currently using West System 105
>> Resin, 206 Slow
>> Hardener, and 403 Fiber Filler on a FAA Variance to
>> the approved
>> engineering. They did there own structural tests to
>> satisfy the FAA.
>>
>> I spoke with Mary Heilman (New Waco), they have the
>> FAA Type Cert
>> approval on the New Waco's. They also use it for the
>> restoration
>> work under Repair Station sign off. They have set
>> the precedence for
>> West System. They have not heard anything from the
>> FAA about the FAA
>> restriction of West System (Epoxy)use. This was a
>> rumor going around
>> a few months ago. I asked if I could get a copy of
>> there FAA
>> approval paperwork. The FAA will not allow them to
>> distribute the
>> FAA variance and test results. But we can reference
>> on the FAA 337
>> that the Waco Factory has been approved to use West
>> Systems. Then
>> the FAA can get the data from in-house.
>>
>> My Suggestion is: Use West Systems, 2nd choice would
>> be T-88. I
>> would have the A&P/IA create a FAA 337 in advance
>> and submit for
>> Block 3 approval. I have used both products with
>> excellant results.
>> I also maintain tight tolerances between wood
>> members to reduce the
>> glue filler. This is a standard for the older type
>> glues. Better
>> workmanship.
>>
>> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
>> Aircraft Restoration & Repair
>> 24201 David C. Johnson Loop
>> Kelly Airpark
>> Elbert, CO 80106
>> HM/Shop 303-648-0130
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Downey"
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "cagog"
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I dont want to start people fighting but I
>> would like to get
>> > > anyones opinion about glue for aircraft. Mostly
>> I am looking for
>> > > info on any epoxy that you may have used. And if
>> you did a 337
>> for
>> > > it or just kept it quiet. So please anyone have
>> at this subject
>> >
>> > Chaper 1 in the AC 43-13,1b includes EPOXY as an
>> approved
>> adhesive,
>> > read and follow the AC for the best results.
>> >
>> > I have used T-88, and several other marine
>> epoxies, all work well,
>> > when the directions are followed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> =====
> Harry Hayman
> Phone 904-284-4276
> Fax 904-284-3869
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

[robert Etter]

'I has the same question about the universals as you, until I was going
through some old parts that came off my 24.

Even after lord know how many annuals, I still has one of the original
universals installed up until the early 70's.

I will lay them side by side and take a couple pictures. The FS111 model is
much heavier.

Send me an E-mail directly to me at rletter@citlink.net , and I should be
able to a "JPG" attachment back to you today. That goes as well for any one
else out that hasn't seen the older version.

Bob'

[Jamie S. Treat]

'All,

I can't find the picture Karl Sanger sent me for the universal joints. Still
looking.

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Etter"
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Landing gear universal's


>
> I has the same question about the universals as you, until I was going
> through some old parts that came off my 24.
>
> Even after lord know how many annuals, I still has one of the original
> universals installed up until the early 70's.
>
> I will lay them side by side and take a couple pictures. The FS111 model
> is
> much heavier.
>
> Send me an E-mail directly to me at rletter@citlink.net , and I should be
> able to a "JPG" attachment back to you today. That goes as well for any
> one
> else out that hasn't seen the older version.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'