Re: Instrument range markings

ccmueller001 · Post by **ccmueller001** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:39 am

'Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT.

I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement?

Charles
'

Hugh Loewenhardt · Post by **Hugh Loewenhardt** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:56 pm

'Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online.

On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu [fairchildclub]" wrote:

Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT.

I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement?
Charles
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'

Hans Friedebach · Post by **Hans Friedebach** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:37 pm

'

AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help?

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings

Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references
applicable Part 23 FARs also available online.

On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu%20[fairchildclub]"
wrote:

Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT.

I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement?

Charles

'

Curt Kinchen · Post by **Curt Kinchen** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:04 am

'Believe the TCDS limits need to be readily available to the pilot(placard, range on instrument, etc.).

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Hans Friedebach hans@tsoproducts.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help? From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online. On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu%20[fairchildclub]" wrote: Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT. I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement? Charles

--
Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com '

Hugh Loewenhardt · Post by **Hugh Loewenhardt** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:16 pm

' Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) Part 23, Airworthiness, Markings and Placards Section specify the mandatory requirements for designated instruments and the marking of their minimum and maximum limits. The markings are usually required for airworthiness signoff on our category of aircraft but not always, depending on the A&I. Colored tape can be used for the marks and removed later should the markings be objectionable for some reason.

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM, "Curt Kinchen ptcurt@gmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:

Believe the TCDS limits need to be readily available to the pilot(placard, range on instrument, etc.).

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Hans Friedebach hans@tsoproducts.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help? From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online. On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu%20[fairchildclub]" wrote: Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT. I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement? Charles

--
Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com #ygrps-yiv-477572717 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491 -- #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-477572717 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-477572717 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-477572717 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-477572717 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-477572717 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491 #ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-477572717yiv8788255491ad p { margin:0;} 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'

Cy Galley · Post by **Cy Galley** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:29 pm

'Right but a Fairchild is a CAM certified plane that doesn't meet part 23 and never has to. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:16 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) Part 23, Airworthiness, Markings and Placards Section specify the mandatory requirements for designated instruments and the marking of their minimum and maximum limits. The markings are usually required for airworthiness signoff on our category of aircraft but not always, depending on the A&I. Colored tape can be used for the marks and removed later should the markings be objectionable for some reason. On Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM, "Curt Kinchen ptcurt@gmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote: Believe the TCDS limits need to be readily available to the pilot(placard, range on instrument, etc.). On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Hans Friedebach hans@tsoproducts.com [fairchildclub] wrote: AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help? From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online. On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu%20[fairchildclub]" wrote: Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT. I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement? Charles

-- Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com '

Hugh Loewenhardt · Post by **Hugh Loewenhardt** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:11 pm

'To clarify the orginal instrument marking question: general aviation aircraft certified by Part 3 of the Civil Air Regulations (CARs) adopted in 1938 required instruments to be marked in accordance with Sections 3.756 thru 3.765 as mandated by Section 3.385. The requirement would have applied to the original civilian version of the Fairchild PT and civilianized military aircraft of that era. From 1926 to 1938, aircraft were certified in accordance with Aeronautical Bulletins. Civil Air Manuals (CAMs) were issued to provide guidance for compliance with the CARs. Federal Aviation Regulations issued by the FAA superseded the CARs of the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA).

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 9:29 PM, "'Cy Galley' cgalley@mchsi.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:

Right but a Fairchild is a CAM certified plane that doesn't meet part 23 and never has to. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:16 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) Part 23, Airworthiness, Markings and Placards Section specify the mandatory requirements for designated instruments and the marking of their minimum and maximum limits. The markings are usually required for airworthiness signoff on our category of aircraft but not always, depending on the A&I. Colored tape can be used for the marks and removed later should the markings be objectionable for some reason. On Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM, "Curt Kinchen ptcurt@gmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote: Believe the TCDS limits need to be readily available to the pilot(placard, range on instrument, etc.). On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Hans Friedebach hans@tsoproducts.com [fairchildclub] wrote: AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help? From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online. On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu%20[fairchildclub]" wrote: Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT. I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement? Charles

-- Curt Kinchen
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'

Hans Friedebach · Post by **Hans Friedebach** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:32 pm

'See CAR part 3 attached

Hans

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2015 10:11 PM

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings

To clarify the orginal instrument marking question: general aviation aircraft certified by Part 3 of the Civil Air Regulations (CARs) adopted in 1938 required instruments to be marked in accordance with Sections 3.756 thru 3.765 as mandated by Section 3.385. The requirement would have applied to the original civilian version of the Fairchild PT and civilianized military aircraft of that era. From 1926 to 1938, aircraft were certified in accordance with Aeronautical Bulletins. Civil Air Manuals (CAMs) were issued to provide guidance for compliance with the CARs. Federal Aviation Regulations issued by the FAA superseded the CARs of the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA).

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 9:29 PM, "'Cy Galley' cgalley@mchsi.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:

Right but a Fairchild is a CAM certified plane that doesn't meet part 23 and never has to.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:16 PM

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings

Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) Part 23, Airworthiness, Markings and Placards Section specify the mandatory requirements for designated instruments and the marking of their minimum and maximum limits. The markings are usually required for airworthiness signoff on our category of aircraft but not always, depending on the A&I. Colored tape can be used for the marks and removed later should the markings be objectionable for some reason.

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM, "Curt Kinchen ptcurt@gmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:

Believe the TCDS limits need to be readily available to the pilot(placard, range on instrument, etc.).

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Hans Friedebach hans@tsoproducts.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help?

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings

Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online.

On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu [fairchildclub]" wrote:

Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?

That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT.

I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement?

Charles

--

Curt Kinchen

ptcurt@gmail.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Cy Galley · Post by **Cy Galley** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:11 am

'Finally the CAR requirement From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2015 9:11 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings    To clarify the orginal instrument marking question: general aviation aircraft certified by Part 3 of the Civil Air Regulations (CARs) adopted in 1938 required instruments to be marked in accordance with Sections 3.756 thru 3.765 as mandated by Section 3.385. The requirement would have applied to the original civilian version of the Fairchild PT and civilianized military aircraft of that era. From 1926 to 1938, aircraft were certified in accordance with Aeronautical Bulletins. Civil Air Manuals (CAMs) were issued to provide guidance for compliance with the CARs. Federal Aviation Regulations issued by the FAA superseded the CARs of the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA). On Thursday, July 2, 2015 9:29 PM, "'Cy Galley' cgalley@mchsi.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:    Right but a Fairchild is a CAM certified plane that doesn't meet part 23 and never has to. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:16 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings   Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) Part 23, Airworthiness, Markings and Placards Section specify the mandatory requirements for designated instruments and the marking of their minimum and maximum limits. The markings are usually required for airworthiness signoff on our category of aircraft but not always, depending on the A&I. Colored tape can be used for the marks and removed later should the markings be objectionable for some reason.   On Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM, "Curt Kinchen ptcurt@gmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:   Believe the TCDS limits need to be readily available to the pilot(placard, range on instrument, etc.). On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Hans Friedebach hans@tsoproducts.com [fairchildclub] wrote: AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help? From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings   Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online.  On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu%20[fairchildclub]" wrote:   Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT. I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement? Charles

-- Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com '

Pete Crawford · Post by **Pete Crawford** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:41 pm

' The POH for the PT-19 and brethren show no markings on any instruments that I can tell. Then, if you go to the Type Certificate (A-724), Note 4 (page 8) describes what modifications must be accomplished to register a previously-military flown PT with the FAA. There is no mention about adding any sort of markings on instruments. I would interpret that to mean that instrument markings are optional.

When I had my instruments overhauled, I had the faces redone to add the markings.

Pete Crawford

On 7/5/2015 12:11 PM, 'Cy Galley' cgalley@mchsi.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

Finally the CAR requirement From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2015 9:11 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings To clarify the orginal instrument marking question: general aviation aircraft certified by Part 3 of the Civil Air Regulations (CARs) adopted in 1938 required instruments to be marked in accordance with Sections 3.756 thru 3.765 as mandated by Section 3.385. The requirement would have applied to the original civilian version of the Fairchild PT and civilianized military aircraft of that era. From 1926 to 1938, aircraft were certified in accordance with Aeronautical Bulletins. Civil Air Manuals (CAMs) were issued to provide guidance for compliance with the CARs. Federal Aviation Regulations issued by the FAA superseded the CARs of the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA). On Thursday, July 2, 2015 9:29 PM, "'Cy Galley' cgalley@mchsi.com [fairchildclub]" wrote: Right but a Fairchild is a CAM certified plane that doesn't meet part 23 and never has to. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:16 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) Part 23, Airworthiness, Markings and Placards Section specify the mandatory requirements for designated instruments and the marking of their minimum and maximum limits. The markings are usually required for airworthiness signoff on our category of aircraft but not always, depending on the A&I. Colored tape can be used for the marks and removed later should the markings be objectionable for some reason. On Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM, "Curt Kinchen ptcurt@gmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote: Believe the TCDS limits need to be readily available to the pilot(placard, range on instrument, etc.). On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Hans Friedebach hans@tsoproducts.com [fairchildclub] wrote: AC 20-88A is an excellent description what markings should look like. I didn’t see anything about mandatory requirements. Type certificate data sheets any help? From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:57 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Instrument range markings Advisory Circular AC 20-88A provides guidelines for marking minimum and maximum instrument limitations. The AC document, available online, references applicable Part 23 FARs also available online. On Monday, June 29, 2015 10:39 AM, "cmueller@csuchico.edu%20[fairchildclub]" wrote: Are instrument range markings required on older aircraft?
That's an in-general question, but I'm thinking of a 1943 PT. I realize they are a smart thing to add, but is it a requirement? Charles

-- Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com

'