Re: PT-19-26 parts

An archive of all the messages posted in the old Fairchild Club Yahoo Group. It is not possible to start a new topic in this forum (please use one of the other forums for new threads), but you can continue to post on existing topics.
J. E. Miller
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:20 pm

Hayes Brakes

Post by J. E. Miller »

'I have a problem which I am unable to solve. I changed both flexible hoses
and the left expander tube brake assembly with one that was clean, dry and
unused. The brakes were bled and checked OK. The aircraft was flown and
upon return, on roll-out, the braking action was reduced to almost nothing.
This happened on two occasions. The last time I just let the plane sit in
the hangar while I tried to figure out what might be wrong. The next day
when I got into the plane to check the brakes in preparation to commence the
bleeding procedure, the brakes seemed to work just fine. Would someone
please enlighten me as to what I am doing wrong. Thanks. Joe Miller.'
Michael Denest
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 9:56 am

Re: Hayes Brakes

Post by Michael Denest »

'Joe,
Try pumping fluid from the expander tube up to the
reservoir. Then using a bicycle pump, put some air
pressure on the tank. Pump the brakes and bleed the
system as you normally would. The air pressure will
force the air out of the tube. Just make sure that
you maintain the fluid level in the tank.

More than likely there was some air trapped either in
the master cylinder or the tube causing the pedal to
drop. Overnight, the air bubble may have worked its
way somewhere else. If it is still a problem, you may
want to pull the master cylinder and replace the
seals.

Mike



--- "J. E. Miller" wrote:
> I have a problem which I am unable to solve. I
> changed both flexible hoses
> and the left expander tube brake assembly with one
> that was clean, dry and
> unused. The brakes were bled and checked OK. The
> aircraft was flown and
> upon return, on roll-out, the braking action was
> reduced to almost nothing.
> This happened on two occasions. The last time I
> just let the plane sit in
> the hangar while I tried to figure out what might be
> wrong. The next day
> when I got into the plane to check the brakes in
> preparation to commence the
> bleeding procedure, the brakes seemed to work just
> fine. Would someone
> please enlighten me as to what I am doing wrong.
> Thanks. Joe Miller.
>
>



____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs'
robert Etter
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2001 7:37 pm

Hayes Brakes

Post by robert Etter »

'I feel allot better now with the knowledge that Dot 3 will cause the expander tubes to swell. I thought for I while that I was loosing my mind.
The damage may have already been done to the expander tubes, I hope not. The brake pads have already been sized to fit everything as is, and I may have shot myself in the foot again.
The Dot 3 has been drained and the system was flushed with alcohol. I have serviced the right side with Dot 5, and it seems to be working good. The left side will get the same treatment as soon as I get some of the paint re-touched up.
When it came to bleeding the system, and being a bit of a tight wad by not wanting to waste Dot 5 (boy! are they proud of that stuff), I turned the fluid container into something that resembles an I V (intravenous) bottle. I put a brass fitting into the cap, then attached a 6 foot length of clear plastic tubing to the cap and slipped the other end over the barbed end of the bleeder screw. I already knew that with the bleeder screw slightly loosen to allow fluid flow, that it would leak brake fluid past the threads. I put a piece of vacuum hose ( .140 inch long) between the end of the threads and the hex flat surfaces to stop the leaks. I put the bottle up as high as I could get it, and let gravity do most of the work. I did pump the pedal slowly on occasion to drive the air bubbles out of the system and let the laws of physics take them back up the hose to the supply bottle. It seemed to work really well. Since I am not yet dealing with a completely together airplane, I did with ease, elevate the tail so the air in the master cylinder would find its way back up into the brake fluid reservoir. After I was sure that I had all the air out of the system, I locked everything down and found that I had a good solid pedal. At least on one side, so far.

Bob Etter
PO Box 974
Tonopah, NV 89049
775-482-6820
rletter@citlink.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Tom Mueller
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:18 pm

Re: Hayes Brakes

Post by Tom Mueller »

'J.E.
Its just air in the lines. I like the old fashion bleeding routine
that takes two people. We all know
how to do that and I think it's very effective. Especially if you run
a copious amount of fluid through the system. (couple of quarts) I had
an odd thing happen to me however. After finishing up a complete
bleeding I was confident no air was in the system and had a good hard
pedal. I then began work on the parking brake
arraignment and had to make approx twenty or thirty hard brake
applications to get the parking brake apparatus to function kinda
correctly (I don't trust it to much) Anyway, I thought I'd give it one
more quick
check for air (the following day) and got a pretty good burp out the
bleeder from each side, Seems like the hard brake applications can
break loose some of the smaller bubbles that hang around tight areas
and are encouraged to group together and you get a nice little
burp.
Tom
Hanford,Ca.'
craigroads
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:23 pm

Hayes Brakes

Post by craigroads »

'I am looking for some advice from the group. I purchased new brake blocks from Fresno, and found that I can not reinstall the brake assembly into the wheel casting due to clearance. I suspect that the expander tube has swelled as we have been using DOT3 for years. I have a second spare Hayes Brake set. The new brake blocks fit on the second set just fine, but found I have a fluid leak on one of the tube stems where it fits into the nozzel conection. The leak is from a failed rubber nozzle packing. Tried some "O" rings from NAPA as a substitute for the rubber nozzle packing but way too big.

Is there advice as to how to replace/substitute the rubber nozzle packing? That would be my first choice. Or should I go find someone to try and turn the blocks down for me?

p.s. I have been seeing the comments about master brake cylinders of late. We had our master cylinders bored and sleeved in the mid 90's and they work great.

Craig Stone
F24R46 N81204
Renton, WA'
Herb Carper
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:58 pm

Re: Hayes Brakes

Post by Herb Carper »

'Hi Craig,
 
I experienced the same problem of no clearance with both wheels with new brake blocks.  However, I had installed new old stock expander tubes so it was not swelled tubes which caused the problem.  I think that the blocks were manufactured a littlle too thick so that they could be turned to fit.  I had my brake drums turned to true them up before I started trying to install the new brake blocks.
 
Not being able to find a brake shoe arcing machine, I turned the blocks by hand using an 80 grit sandpaper glued on a flat board.  With the blocks installed in the frames I rotated the assembly with while moving it along the sandpaper, trying to take off an equal amount of material all the way around the circumference.  Every now and then I would see if it fit in the wheel. I didn't want to take too much off the blocks.  I quit when I had about 0.010 in. clearance between the blocks and the drums.  The brakes have worked fine for about a year on my PT-19A.
 
I also had the problem of leaking at the nozzle where the packing gland is installed.  I am using DOT 5 which is worse than gasoline as far as finding places to leak is concerned.  Not at the same time, but I had both glands leak which soaked all the blocks with brake fluid.  I managed to clean and reinstall them and they have worked fine since.
 
I made my own packing glands from some rubber tubing which I had.  I don't know where or when I got it, but the ID and OD were just right, and they have worked fine.
 
To stop leaks with the DOT 5, I coated all surfaces of the glands, the threads of the packing gland nut, and the flares and threads of all fittings in the brake lines with Permatex High-Temperature Thread Sealant.  It's been almost a year now and I have had no leaks at the glands or fittings.
 
I have had another problem however.  I am using Stratoflex hose for the flex lines at the landing gear, and after about six or nine months they started leaking the DOT5 all along the hose,sort of like a garden soaker hose.  If you or anyone has found a hose material that will hold up with DOT 5 I would appreciate knowing about it.
 
Herbie Carper
PT-19A, NC50489
Uvalde,Texas           
 

--- On Sat, 6/5/10, craigroads wrote:


From: craigroads
Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 5:39 PM


 



I am looking for some advice from the group. I purchased new brake blocks from Fresno, and found that I can not reinstall the brake assembly into the wheel casting due to clearance. I suspect that the expander tube has swelled as we have been using DOT3 for years. I have a second spare Hayes Brake set. The new brake blocks fit on the second set just fine, but found I have a fluid leak on one of the tube stems where it fits into the nozzel conection. The leak is from a failed rubber nozzle packing. Tried some "O" rings from NAPA as a substitute for the rubber nozzle packing but way too big.

Is there advice as to how to replace/substitute the rubber nozzle packing? That would be my first choice. Or should I go find someone to try and turn the blocks down for me?

p.s. I have been seeing the comments about master brake cylinders of late. We had our master cylinders bored and sleeved in the mid 90's and they work great.

Craig Stone
F24R46 N81204
Renton, WA








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'
John Ellis
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:37 pm

Re: Hayes Brakes

Post by John Ellis »

'I used Aeroquip hose ( MIL-H-8794).Been on PT-19 about 10 years using Dot 5,
never had a leak.

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Carper"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes



Hi Craig,

I experienced the same problem of no clearance with both wheels with new
brake blocks. However, I had installed new old stock expander tubes so it
was not swelled tubes which caused the problem. I think that the blocks were
manufactured a littlle too thick so that they could be turned to fit. I had
my brake drums turned to true them up before I started trying to install the
new brake blocks.

Not being able to find a brake shoe arcing machine, I turned the blocks by
hand using an 80 grit sandpaper glued on a flat board. With the blocks
installed in the frames I rotated the assembly with while moving it along
the sandpaper, trying to take off an equal amount of material all the way
around the circumference. Every now and then I would see if it fit in the
wheel. I didn't want to take too much off the blocks. I quit when I had
about 0.010 in. clearance between the blocks and the drums. The brakes have
worked fine for about a year on my PT-19A.

I also had the problem of leaking at the nozzle where the packing gland is
installed. I am using DOT 5 which is worse than gasoline as far as finding
places to leak is concerned. Not at the same time, but I had both glands
leak which soaked all the blocks with brake fluid. I managed to clean and
reinstall them and they have worked fine since.

I made my own packing glands from some rubber tubing which I had. I don't
know where or when I got it, but the ID and OD were just right, and they
have worked fine.

To stop leaks with the DOT 5, I coated all surfaces of the glands, the
threads of the packing gland nut, and the flares and threads of all fittings
in the brake lines with Permatex High-Temperature Thread Sealant. It's been
almost a year now and I have had no leaks at the glands or fittings.

I have had another problem however. I am using Stratoflex hose for the flex
lines at the landing gear, and after about six or nine months they started
leaking the DOT5 all along the hose,sort of like a garden soaker hose. If
you or anyone has found a hose material that will hold up with DOT 5 I would
appreciate knowing about it.

Herbie Carper
PT-19A, NC50489
Uvalde,Texas



--- On Sat, 6/5/10, craigroads wrote:


From: craigroads
Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 5:39 PM






I am looking for some advice from the group. I purchased new brake blocks
from Fresno, and found that I can not reinstall the brake assembly into the
wheel casting due to clearance. I suspect that the expander tube has swelled
as we have been using DOT3 for years. I have a second spare Hayes Brake set.
The new brake blocks fit on the second set just fine, but found I have a
fluid leak on one of the tube stems where it fits into the nozzel conection.
The leak is from a failed rubber nozzle packing. Tried some "O" rings from
NAPA as a substitute for the rubber nozzle packing but way too big.

Is there advice as to how to replace/substitute the rubber nozzle packing?
That would be my first choice. Or should I go find someone to try and turn
the blocks down for me?

p.s. I have been seeing the comments about master brake cylinders of late.
We had our master cylinders bored and sleeved in the mid 90's and they work
great.

Craig Stone
F24R46 N81204
Renton, WA








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
'
sr14572@yahoo.com
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:50 am

Re: Hayes Brakes

Post by sr14572@yahoo.com »

'How big of a problem are the brakes on the 19 and 26.  I had airwheels on my sr-5 and when they gave up the ghost, I put UC-78 wheels and brakes on it with no problems.  From reading the posts, and being new to the 19 & 26, is this something I should research more?




________________________________
From: John Ellis
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 9:49:33 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes

 
I used Aeroquip hose ( MIL-H-8794).Been on PT-19 about 10 years using Dot 5,
never had a leak.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Carper"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes

Hi Craig,

I experienced the same problem of no clearance with both wheels with new
brake blocks. However, I had installed new old stock expander tubes so it
was not swelled tubes which caused the problem. I think that the blocks were
manufactured a littlle too thick so that they could be turned to fit. I had
my brake drums turned to true them up before I started trying to install the
new brake blocks.

Not being able to find a brake shoe arcing machine, I turned the blocks by
hand using an 80 grit sandpaper glued on a flat board. With the blocks
installed in the frames I rotated the assembly with while moving it along
the sandpaper, trying to take off an equal amount of material all the way
around the circumference. Every now and then I would see if it fit in the
wheel. I didn't want to take too much off the blocks. I quit when I had
about 0.010 in. clearance between the blocks and the drums. The brakes have
worked fine for about a year on my PT-19A.

I also had the problem of leaking at the nozzle where the packing gland is
installed. I am using DOT 5 which is worse than gasoline as far as finding
places to leak is concerned. Not at the same time, but I had both glands
leak which soaked all the blocks with brake fluid. I managed to clean and
reinstall them and they have worked fine since.

I made my own packing glands from some rubber tubing which I had. I don't
know where or when I got it, but the ID and OD were just right, and they
have worked fine.

To stop leaks with the DOT 5, I coated all surfaces of the glands, the
threads of the packing gland nut, and the flares and threads of all fittings
in the brake lines with Permatex High-Temperature Thread Sealant. It's been
almost a year now and I have had no leaks at the glands or fittings.

I have had another problem however. I am using Stratoflex hose for the flex
lines at the landing gear, and after about six or nine months they started
leaking the DOT5 all along the hose,sort of like a garden soaker hose. If
you or anyone has found a hose material that will hold up with DOT 5 I would
appreciate knowing about it.

Herbie Carper
PT-19A, NC50489
Uvalde,Texas

--- On Sat, 6/5/10, craigroads wrote:

From: craigroads
Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 5:39 PM

I am looking for some advice from the group. I purchased new brake blocks
from Fresno, and found that I can not reinstall the brake assembly into the
wheel casting due to clearance. I suspect that the expander tube has swelled
as we have been using DOT3 for years. I have a second spare Hayes Brake set.
The new brake blocks fit on the second set just fine, but found I have a
fluid leak on one of the tube stems where it fits into the nozzel conection.
The leak is from a failed rubber nozzle packing. Tried some "O" rings from
NAPA as a substitute for the rubber nozzle packing but way too big.

Is there advice as to how to replace/substitute the rubber nozzle packing?
That would be my first choice. Or should I go find someone to try and turn
the blocks down for me?

p.s. I have been seeing the comments about master brake cylinders of late.
We had our master cylinders bored and sleeved in the mid 90's and they work
great.

Craig Stone
F24R46 N81204
Renton, WA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'
BOB DUNN
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:18 pm

Re: Hayes Brakes

Post by BOB DUNN »

'Get rid of the Dot 5 & simply go to Dot 3, the original typr fluid used in the aircradt.
--- On Sat, 6/5/10, Herb Carper wrote:


From: Herb Carper
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 7:57 PM


 




Hi Craig,
 
I experienced the same problem of no clearance with both wheels with new brake blocks.  However, I had installed new old stock expander tubes so it was not swelled tubes which caused the problem.  I think that the blocks were manufactured a littlle too thick so that they could be turned to fit.  I had my brake drums turned to true them up before I started trying to install the new brake blocks.
 
Not being able to find a brake shoe arcing machine, I turned the blocks by hand using an 80 grit sandpaper glued on a flat board.  With the blocks installed in the frames I rotated the assembly with while moving it along the sandpaper, trying to take off an equal amount of material all the way around the circumference.  Every now and then I would see if it fit in the wheel. I didn't want to take too much off the blocks.  I quit when I had about 0.010 in. clearance between the blocks and the drums.  The brakes have worked fine for about a year on my PT-19A.
 
I also had the problem of leaking at the nozzle where the packing gland is installed.  I am using DOT 5 which is worse than gasoline as far as finding places to leak is concerned.  Not at the same time, but I had both glands leak which soaked all the blocks with brake fluid.  I managed to clean and reinstall them and they have worked fine since.
 
I made my own packing glands from some rubber tubing which I had.  I don't know where or when I got it, but the ID and OD were just right, and they have worked fine.
 
To stop leaks with the DOT 5, I coated all surfaces of the glands, the threads of the packing gland nut, and the flares and threads of all fittings in the brake lines with Permatex High-Temperature Thread Sealant.  It's been almost a year now and I have had no leaks at the glands or fittings.
 
I have had another problem however.  I am using Stratoflex hose for the flex lines at the landing gear, and after about six or nine months they started leaking the DOT5 all along the hose,sort of like a garden soaker hose.  If you or anyone has found a hose material that will hold up with DOT 5 I would appreciate knowing about it.
 
Herbie Carper
PT-19A, NC50489
Uvalde,Texas           
 

--- On Sat, 6/5/10, craigroads wrote:

From: craigroads
Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 5:39 PM

 

I am looking for some advice from the group. I purchased new brake blocks from Fresno, and found that I can not reinstall the brake assembly into the wheel casting due to clearance. I suspect that the expander tube has swelled as we have been using DOT3 for years. I have a second spare Hayes Brake set. The new brake blocks fit on the second set just fine, but found I have a fluid leak on one of the tube stems where it fits into the nozzel conection. The leak is from a failed rubber nozzle packing. Tried some "O" rings from NAPA as a substitute for the rubber nozzle packing but way too big.

Is there advice as to how to replace/substitute the rubber nozzle packing? That would be my first choice. Or should I go find someone to try and turn the blocks down for me?

p.s. I have been seeing the comments about master brake cylinders of late. We had our master cylinders bored and sleeved in the mid 90's and they work great.

Craig Stone
F24R46 N81204
Renton, WA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'
BOB DUNN
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:18 pm

Re: Hayes Brakes

Post by BOB DUNN »

'Use a flat rasp to work the blocks down a bit, then a file & finally fine grit san dpaper. The blocks are made a little thick & have to be worked down ^ fitted..
--- On Sat, 6/5/10, craigroads wrote:


From: craigroads
Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes Brakes
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 5:39 PM


 



I am looking for some advice from the group. I purchased new brake blocks from Fresno, and found that I can not reinstall the brake assembly into the wheel casting due to clearance. I suspect that the expander tube has swelled as we have been using DOT3 for years. I have a second spare Hayes Brake set. The new brake blocks fit on the second set just fine, but found I have a fluid leak on one of the tube stems where it fits into the nozzel conection. The leak is from a failed rubber nozzle packing. Tried some "O" rings from NAPA as a substitute for the rubber nozzle packing but way too big.

Is there advice as to how to replace/substitute the rubber nozzle packing? That would be my first choice. Or should I go find someone to try and turn the blocks down for me?

p.s. I have been seeing the comments about master brake cylinders of late. We had our master cylinders bored and sleeved in the mid 90's and they work great.

Craig Stone
F24R46 N81204
Renton, WA











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'
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