Re: Hayes brakes.

[hotfoot49]

'I've had mostly good luck with the expander tube brakes over the
last 25 years. One thing I did find out is that over time brake dust
accumalates under the pads and that causes the pads to "drag" a
little. I thought that the pads needed a little "shaving " to give
them the proper clearance. Not the thing to do!
I put new pads and springs in latter on and found a lot of dust
under the pads. After I put things back together and was able to try
the brakes out, I found that I had more clearance than I wanted.

The dust doesn't allow the pads to retrack all the way down
against the expander tube and that decreases the clearance. I would
try clening the brakes atleast every annual time if you fly a lots.
One other problem with the expander tube brakes is that sometimes
the "red" fluid is put in. That swells the tubes up and you have
breaks! It's aweful hard to get the wheel off them. You have to flush
the system then too. I'm sure that the ground loop wasn't casued from
that. Both wheels would be set up from the wrong fluid.

The guys I know that have Clevelands on their planes really like
em. As long as mine are working OK and I can still get parts, I'll
stick with the expander tube breaks. Maybe some day I will be forced
to cahnge. Well! That's my two cents worth. John Berendt has the name
of one of the club memebers who has Clevelands on his 24.

Mike Kelly N127MP PT-19B'

[Tom Mueller]

'I agree with Mike. When Hayes brakes are cleaned up, and have a
good clearance, they're quite adequate. Not terrific like car
brakes, but I think that wouldn't be good either, because the C.G.
appears to be well forward with one pilot onboard and minimal fuel.
When I got my Fairchild the brakes were tight and more you taxied
the tighter they got. I found the clearance on stone cold brakes to
be about .004 I took the wheels to a tire shop and they had to take
off .010 just to make'm true. I now have .015 cold clearance, I know
the manuals call for less, but I'm happy with .015 (BTW, I count
twelve ground loop incidents since 1962 involving Fairchild F24's,
with brakes grabbing, or locking up on the landing rollout, being
the main contributing factor.
Tom
Hanford, Ca'

[David Stroud]

'One spare Hayes wheel from my project got measured yesterday and it is 6.5" wide
by 11 5/8" tall overall. It's Hayes part number G-3-73M. The size stamped on the
part is 7.5" x 10" and that surprised me. I haven't checked the wheels currently mounted
on the plane closely. Does anyone know if this is typical of a normal Fairchild 24? Thanks.

David Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
F-24 C-FDAE in restoration'

[John Berendt]

'Mike,

Thank you for the information, I could not have done it any better.
John Berendt

----- Original Message -----
From: "hotfoot49"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 10:36 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes brakes.


>
>
> I've had mostly good luck with the expander tube brakes over the
> last 25 years. One thing I did find out is that over time brake dust
> accumalates under the pads and that causes the pads to "drag" a
> little. I thought that the pads needed a little "shaving " to give
> them the proper clearance. Not the thing to do!
> I put new pads and springs in latter on and found a lot of dust
> under the pads. After I put things back together and was able to try
> the brakes out, I found that I had more clearance than I wanted.
>
> The dust doesn't allow the pads to retrack all the way down
> against the expander tube and that decreases the clearance. I would
> try clening the brakes atleast every annual time if you fly a lots.
> One other problem with the expander tube brakes is that sometimes
> the "red" fluid is put in. That swells the tubes up and you have
> breaks! It's aweful hard to get the wheel off them. You have to flush
> the system then too. I'm sure that the ground loop wasn't casued from
> that. Both wheels would be set up from the wrong fluid.
>
> The guys I know that have Clevelands on their planes really like
> em. As long as mine are working OK and I can still get parts, I'll
> stick with the expander tube breaks. Maybe some day I will be forced
> to cahnge. Well! That's my two cents worth. John Berendt has the name
> of one of the club memebers who has Clevelands on his 24.
>
> Mike Kelly N127MP PT-19B
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

[Karl Saenger]

'Hi all,

I can underline what Mike Kelly says, I only want to add that some
times a layer of rust can build up on the brake frame underneat the
expander tube and will push the expander tube and with it the brake
pads outward, reducing the clearance to nothing. Then it only needs
a heat up from a landing roll, and the brake will lock.
See the article in the Fairchild Flyer Fall 2003 Technical topics.

A happy New Year to all and many happy landings!

Karl Saenger UC61K 43-14927


--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "hotfoot49"
wrote:

>
> I've had mostly good luck with the expander tube brakes over the
> last 25 years. One thing I did find out is that over time brake

dust

> accumalates under the pads and that causes the pads to "drag" a
> little. I thought that the pads needed a little "shaving " to give
> them the proper clearance. Not the thing to do!
> I put new pads and springs in latter on and found a lot of dust
> under the pads. After I put things back together and was able to

try

> the brakes out, I found that I had more clearance than I wanted.
>
> The dust doesn't allow the pads to retrack all the way down
> against the expander tube and that decreases the clearance. I

would

> try clening the brakes atleast every annual time if you fly a

lots.

> One other problem with the expander tube brakes is that sometimes
> the "red" fluid is put in. That swells the tubes up and you have
> breaks! It's aweful hard to get the wheel off them. You have to

flush

> the system then too. I'm sure that the ground loop wasn't casued

from

> that. Both wheels would be set up from the wrong fluid.
>
> The guys I know that have Clevelands on their planes really like
> em. As long as mine are working OK and I can still get parts, I'll
> stick with the expander tube breaks. Maybe some day I will be

forced

> to cahnge. Well! That's my two cents worth. John Berendt has the

name

> of one of the club memebers who has Clevelands on his 24.
>
> Mike Kelly N127MP PT-19B

'

[hotfoot49]

'Karl is right about the rust. I remember that I found that on mine
also when I had the breaks apart to put the new blocks and
springs "clips" on. I was thinking some more about the dust getting
in the blocks and remembered that the dust accumalates in between the
blocks also. When the brakes are applied, that allows the dust to get
in between the ends of the blocks. I had quit a lots of the brake
dust in between mine. Always learning!

Keep Em Flying !

Mike Kelly'

[Tom Mueller]

'David,
I would't take into account the wheel total dimensions when
measuring your spare. The measurements of any concern to you are
where the tire rides on the rim. (excluding any flange heights or
widths)
These measurements should reflect acceptance of a 6.50 X 10 in.
tire. Stampings 7.50 X 10 in. appear correct, but has nothing to do
with tire size. Also, chasing down 60 year old part numbers will
make you nuts!
Tom
Hanford,Ca'

[robert Etter]

'To start with, about a year ago, I assembles two brake assemblies for the 24 out of parts that I had on hand. Ordered new pads for both assemblies (New Pads). Then turned down the pads to where they met the .007-.010 inch clearance with the drum. Serviced the initially with Dot 3 brake fluid. Left side worked fine. I later found a bad expander tube on the right side. Then things started getting messes. Did much repainting on the lower right side. Took may parts apart and repainted them. Ya hear that one before didn't ya.

Finally got set up to start servicing the system with Dot 5. I made a closed system to bleed the brakes and to same the expensive Dot 5 fluid. Before I got started, I flushed the system and lines with alcohol. After I got everything as clean as possible, I sued a clear plastic hose coming from a bottle mounted up near the wing. I started back-filling the system with fluid. Once I knew that I have fluid coming up into the reservoir, and had got it topped off. A few good strokes of the brake pedal showed that there was no air in the system.

I tried to do the same thing on the left side. I then noticed that the brake was dragging pretty hard. The brake assembly was turned to match the brake drum over a year ago, and has done noting but sit there until last weekend. I originally serviced it with Dot 3, then about a month ago, bleed & flushed all that out with alcohol.

Why should you come back a month later and find the expander tube has swelled to the tune of .007"-.010". I had to remove at least that much material to get the system to work right.

Bob Etter
PO Box 974
Tonopah, NV 89049
775-482-6820
rletter@citlink.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

[Jamie S. Treat]

'Bob,

The Dot 3 is too harsh, makes the rubber swell. I use DOT 4 as the old
standard. Now I switch to DOT 5 with a flushed system. Also the new
Clevelands will except the DOT 5 to my surprise.

Jamie


Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Kelly Airpark
Elbert, CO 80106
HM/Shop 303-648-0130
JamieTreat@direcway.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Etter"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:24 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes brakes.


> To start with, about a year ago, I assembles two brake assemblies for the
> 24 out of parts that I had on hand. Ordered new pads for both assemblies
> (New Pads). Then turned down the pads to where they met the .007-.010
> inch clearance with the drum. Serviced the initially with Dot 3 brake
> fluid. Left side worked fine. I later found a bad expander tube on the
> right side. Then things started getting messes. Did much repainting on
> the lower right side. Took may parts apart and repainted them. Ya hear
> that one before didn't ya.
>
> Finally got set up to start servicing the system with Dot 5. I made a
> closed system to bleed the brakes and to same the expensive Dot 5 fluid.
> Before I got started, I flushed the system and lines with alcohol. After
> I got everything as clean as possible, I sued a clear plastic hose coming
> from a bottle mounted up near the wing. I started back-filling the system
> with fluid. Once I knew that I have fluid coming up into the reservoir,
> and had got it topped off. A few good strokes of the brake pedal showed
> that there was no air in the system.
>
> I tried to do the same thing on the left side. I then noticed that the
> brake was dragging pretty hard. The brake assembly was turned to match
> the brake drum over a year ago, and has done noting but sit there until
> last weekend. I originally serviced it with Dot 3, then about a month
> ago, bleed & flushed all that out with alcohol.
>
> Why should you come back a month later and find the expander tube has
> swelled to the tune of .007"-.010". I had to remove at least that much
> material to get the system to work right.
>
> Bob Etter
> PO Box 974
> Tonopah, NV 89049
> 775-482-6820
> rletter@citlink.net
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

[Michael Denest]

'I agree with Jamie. Use DOT 5 from the very
beginning. Dot 5 is a synthetic fluid, DOT 3 is
petroleum based. Did you also replace the seals in
the master cylinder?

Mike

--- "Jamie S. Treat" wrote:

> Bob,
>
> The Dot 3 is too harsh, makes the rubber swell. I
> use DOT 4 as the old
> standard. Now I switch to DOT 5 with a flushed
> system. Also the new
> Clevelands will except the DOT 5 to my surprise.
>
> Jamie
>
>
> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
> Aircraft Restoration & Repair
> 24201 David C. Johnson Loop
> Kelly Airpark
> Elbert, CO 80106
> HM/Shop 303-648-0130
> JamieTreat@direcway.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Etter"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:24 PM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Hayes brakes.
>
>
> > To start with, about a year ago, I assembles two
> brake assemblies for the
> > 24 out of parts that I had on hand. Ordered new
> pads for both assemblies
> > (New Pads). Then turned down the pads to where
> they met the .007-.010
> > inch clearance with the drum. Serviced the
> initially with Dot 3 brake
> > fluid. Left side worked fine. I later found a
> bad expander tube on the
> > right side. Then things started getting messes.
> Did much repainting on
> > the lower right side. Took may parts apart and
> repainted them. Ya hear
> > that one before didn't ya.
> >
> > Finally got set up to start servicing the system
> with Dot 5. I made a
> > closed system to bleed the brakes and to same the
> expensive Dot 5 fluid.
> > Before I got started, I flushed the system and
> lines with alcohol. After
> > I got everything as clean as possible, I sued a
> clear plastic hose coming
> > from a bottle mounted up near the wing. I started
> back-filling the system
> > with fluid. Once I knew that I have fluid coming
> up into the reservoir,
> > and had got it topped off. A few good strokes of
> the brake pedal showed
> > that there was no air in the system.
> >
> > I tried to do the same thing on the left side.
> I then noticed that the
> > brake was dragging pretty hard. The brake
> assembly was turned to match
> > the brake drum over a year ago, and has done
> noting but sit there until
> > last weekend. I originally serviced it with Dot
> 3, then about a month
> > ago, bleed & flushed all that out with alcohol.
> >
> > Why should you come back a month later and find
> the expander tube has
> > swelled to the tune of .007"-.010". I had to
> remove at least that much
> > material to get the system to work right.
> >
> > Bob Etter
> > PO Box 974
> > Tonopah, NV 89049
> > 775-482-6820
> > rletter@citlink.net
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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