'The FAA has done it again. I recently sent in a 337 for a radio and transponder installation in a F-24W 46 and it bounced back, because as they say "it does not have referenced approved data for the installation."
Is there anyone in this Fairchild group that would have a 337 for a installation of either or a King KY97A com and a King KT76A transponder ? I also installed a Ameri-king AK-350 altitude recorder that will more than likely need approved data .
"Approved data to the FAA is any previously approved installation done on the same make and model of aircraft. "
A copy of a 337 that has this type of installation would be very helpful,Thanks ,Tom
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Re: Form 337
-
Tom Downey
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:28 pm
Re: Form 337
'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Tom and Carol Burmeister
wrote:
because as they say "it does not have referenced approved data for
the installation."
transponder ? I also installed a Ameri-king AK-350 altitude
recorder that will more than likely need approved data .
installation manual from King.'
wrote:
and transponder installation in a F-24W 46 and it bounced back,> The FAA has done it again. I recently sent in a 337 for a radio
because as they say "it does not have referenced approved data for
the installation."
a installation of either or a King KY97A com and a King KT76A> Is there anyone in this Fairchild group that would have a 337 for
transponder ? I also installed a Ameri-king AK-350 altitude
recorder that will more than likely need approved data .
done on the same make and model of aircraft. "> "Approved data to the FAA is any previously approved installation
helpful,Thanks ,Tom> A copy of a 337 that has this type of installation would be very
Approved Data in this case would be Inaccordance with the>
>
>
installation manual from King.'
-
Michael Denest
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 9:56 am
Re: Form 337
'Tom,
The FAA responded accordingly. From what you said in
your message, his judgement was correct. You provided
no references on which you based your installation.
Here is a link with information on the field approval
process. http://www1.faa.gov/fsdo/atl/nfield.htm
Before you do anything on your airplane, you first
need to call your local FSDO and find out the name of
the Air Safety Inspector responsible for electrical
and avionics. Talk to him and explain what you want
to do. He will explain the steps needed to get a
field approval for your installation. You need to
have your data approved in order to do the
installation and get your aircraft returned to
service. The inspector makes all approvals in
accordance with the 8300.10, chapter 2, change 16 of
the Airworthiness Inspectors Handbook. It's a .PDF
file you can find here:
http://www1.faa.gov/avr/afs/infoformechanics/index.cfm
Review the procedure for approving an alteration like
yours.
Now, the inspector has a handle on what you want to
do. Write a short cover letter describing the
aircraft and HOW you are doing installation. It
dosen't matter WHY you are doing it, just give him the
tools he needs to sign Block 3 of the 337. You must
submit two UNSIGNED and UNDATED 337 copies of the
installation. The description of the work
accomplished must reference the ACCEPTABLE methods,
techniques and practices used to do the installation.
This is found in AC43-13-1b (repairs)and AC43-13-2a
(alterations). You must also reference the
manufacturer's instructions for the installation.
Also reference the appropriate FAR's under which you
are doing the work. The 337 MUST include Instructions
for Continued Airworthiness (ICA). Why? Because
someone after you are long gone must maintain the
aircraft in an airworthy condition. The 337 and ICA
document outline how your installation is to be
maintained, inspected, etc., and becomes part of the
annual inspection. You must provide an electrical
schematic showing how your equipment is wired in. The
drawing should be titled, numbered, signed and have a
parts list. You should also provide another drawing
or sketch showing how the equipment is installed in
the aircraft with similar information. Weight and
balance information is not required on the 337.
This document package, once approved, becomes part of
your aircraft records. Your 337 field approval must
be referenced when an annual inspection is performed.
FWIW, the 337 you are looking for will take longer to
find than it will to do the steps above, plus it must
be an aircraft similar to yours. Yes, you can use it
as a reference and include it in your package but only
the person who returned that referenced aircraft to
service can use it as approved data for your aircraft.
Your IA or a Designated Airworthiness Representative
can do this paperwork for you. The return to service
though, must be done by your IA. It may sound long
and drawn out but remember, doing your homework before
you do the installation will get your approval much
faster. Also know that the ASI handbook change 16
instructs the inspector to seek help if he is not
qualified to the the authorization. As long as you
provide what I have outlined above, the ASI cannot
flatly turn down your field approval.
I hope this information is helpful for you.
Mike Denest
--- Tom and Carol Burmeister
wrote:
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The FAA responded accordingly. From what you said in
your message, his judgement was correct. You provided
no references on which you based your installation.
Here is a link with information on the field approval
process. http://www1.faa.gov/fsdo/atl/nfield.htm
Before you do anything on your airplane, you first
need to call your local FSDO and find out the name of
the Air Safety Inspector responsible for electrical
and avionics. Talk to him and explain what you want
to do. He will explain the steps needed to get a
field approval for your installation. You need to
have your data approved in order to do the
installation and get your aircraft returned to
service. The inspector makes all approvals in
accordance with the 8300.10, chapter 2, change 16 of
the Airworthiness Inspectors Handbook. It's a .PDF
file you can find here:
http://www1.faa.gov/avr/afs/infoformechanics/index.cfm
Review the procedure for approving an alteration like
yours.
Now, the inspector has a handle on what you want to
do. Write a short cover letter describing the
aircraft and HOW you are doing installation. It
dosen't matter WHY you are doing it, just give him the
tools he needs to sign Block 3 of the 337. You must
submit two UNSIGNED and UNDATED 337 copies of the
installation. The description of the work
accomplished must reference the ACCEPTABLE methods,
techniques and practices used to do the installation.
This is found in AC43-13-1b (repairs)and AC43-13-2a
(alterations). You must also reference the
manufacturer's instructions for the installation.
Also reference the appropriate FAR's under which you
are doing the work. The 337 MUST include Instructions
for Continued Airworthiness (ICA). Why? Because
someone after you are long gone must maintain the
aircraft in an airworthy condition. The 337 and ICA
document outline how your installation is to be
maintained, inspected, etc., and becomes part of the
annual inspection. You must provide an electrical
schematic showing how your equipment is wired in. The
drawing should be titled, numbered, signed and have a
parts list. You should also provide another drawing
or sketch showing how the equipment is installed in
the aircraft with similar information. Weight and
balance information is not required on the 337.
This document package, once approved, becomes part of
your aircraft records. Your 337 field approval must
be referenced when an annual inspection is performed.
FWIW, the 337 you are looking for will take longer to
find than it will to do the steps above, plus it must
be an aircraft similar to yours. Yes, you can use it
as a reference and include it in your package but only
the person who returned that referenced aircraft to
service can use it as approved data for your aircraft.
Your IA or a Designated Airworthiness Representative
can do this paperwork for you. The return to service
though, must be done by your IA. It may sound long
and drawn out but remember, doing your homework before
you do the installation will get your approval much
faster. Also know that the ASI handbook change 16
instructs the inspector to seek help if he is not
qualified to the the authorization. As long as you
provide what I have outlined above, the ASI cannot
flatly turn down your field approval.
I hope this information is helpful for you.
Mike Denest
--- Tom and Carol Burmeister
wrote:
__________________________________> The FAA has done it again. I recently sent in a 337
> for a radio and transponder installation in a F-24W
> 46 and it bounced back, because as they say "it does
> not have referenced approved data for the
> installation."
> Is there anyone in this Fairchild group that would
> have a 337 for a installation of either or a King
> KY97A com and a King KT76A transponder ? I also
> installed a Ameri-king AK-350 altitude recorder
> that will more than likely need approved data .
> "Approved data to the FAA is any previously approved
> installation done on the same make and model of
> aircraft. "
> A copy of a 337 that has this type of installation
> would be very helpful,Thanks ,Tom
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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-
Tom Downey
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:28 pm
Re: Form 337
'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Michael Denest
wrote:
In your refference, it clearly states that a Appliance manufacturers
manual is approved data for use in a 337.
QUOTE
Why do you need a Field Approval?
Four regulations, FAR 65.95, FAR 121.379, FAR 135.437, and FAR
145.51 all require "approved" data for major repairs and major
alterations.
Approved data can be;
Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS),
Airworthiness Directives (AD),
Designated Engineering Representative (DER) data,
Designated Alteration Station (DAS) data,
FAA-Approved data,
FAA-Approved Manufacturer's data,
Supplemental Type Certificates (STC) and
Appliance manufacturers manuals.
END QUOTE'
wrote:
http://www1.faa.gov/fsdo/atl/nfield.htm> Tom,
> The FAA responded accordingly. From what you said in
> your message, his judgement was correct. You provided
> no references on which you based your installation.
> Here is a link with information on the field approval
> process.
In your refference, it clearly states that a Appliance manufacturers
manual is approved data for use in a 337.
QUOTE
Why do you need a Field Approval?
Four regulations, FAR 65.95, FAR 121.379, FAR 135.437, and FAR
145.51 all require "approved" data for major repairs and major
alterations.
Approved data can be;
Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS),
Airworthiness Directives (AD),
Designated Engineering Representative (DER) data,
Designated Alteration Station (DAS) data,
FAA-Approved data,
FAA-Approved Manufacturer's data,
Supplemental Type Certificates (STC) and
Appliance manufacturers manuals.
END QUOTE'
-
Michael Denest
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 9:56 am
Re: Form 337
'Tom,
Yes, the list says appliance manufacturers approved
data can be used. However, in order to use it, the
data must have been PREVIOUSLY approved by the
Administrator. If your avionics installation manual
is kept up to date with revisions from the
manufacturer and you buy a subscription from that
manufacturer to keep current information, then yes, it
is data approved by the Administrator. Each page is
dated, has a revision level and a revision sheet will
be in front of the book along with the names of the
persons approving the data and their signatures. Your
radio installation manual is ACCEPTABLE data until it
is APPROVED by the Administrator, in this case, the
FSDO air safety inspector. THEN it becomes approved
data. Your manual tells you HOW to install the
appliance and provides only enough information to
maintain it in everyday use. It does not give you
specific schematic diagrams and circuit information
plus you do not have the test equipment necessary to
correct any problems. Only the manufacturer or an FAA
Part 145 Repair Station has manuals approved by the
Administrator for maintenance, repair and the
equipment to do so.
Sorry, I have to disagree with your interpretation.
As I stated before, your FSDO ASI has the answers and
will help you getting your installation approved.
Mike
--- Tom Downey wrote:
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http://companion.yahoo.com/'
Yes, the list says appliance manufacturers approved
data can be used. However, in order to use it, the
data must have been PREVIOUSLY approved by the
Administrator. If your avionics installation manual
is kept up to date with revisions from the
manufacturer and you buy a subscription from that
manufacturer to keep current information, then yes, it
is data approved by the Administrator. Each page is
dated, has a revision level and a revision sheet will
be in front of the book along with the names of the
persons approving the data and their signatures. Your
radio installation manual is ACCEPTABLE data until it
is APPROVED by the Administrator, in this case, the
FSDO air safety inspector. THEN it becomes approved
data. Your manual tells you HOW to install the
appliance and provides only enough information to
maintain it in everyday use. It does not give you
specific schematic diagrams and circuit information
plus you do not have the test equipment necessary to
correct any problems. Only the manufacturer or an FAA
Part 145 Repair Station has manuals approved by the
Administrator for maintenance, repair and the
equipment to do so.
Sorry, I have to disagree with your interpretation.
As I stated before, your FSDO ASI has the answers and
will help you getting your installation approved.
Mike
--- Tom Downey wrote:
__________________________________> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Michael Denest
>
> wrote:
> > Tom,
> > The FAA responded accordingly. From what you said
> in
> > your message, his judgement was correct. You
> provided
> > no references on which you based your
> installation.
> > Here is a link with information on the field
> approval
> > process.
>
>
> http://www1.faa.gov/fsdo/atl/nfield.htm
>
> In your refference, it clearly states that a
> Appliance manufacturers
> manual is approved data for use in a 337.
>
> QUOTE
>
> Why do you need a Field Approval?
>
> Four regulations, FAR 65.95, FAR 121.379, FAR
> 135.437, and FAR
> 145.51 all require "approved" data for major repairs
> and major
> alterations.
>
> Approved data can be;
>
> Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS),
>
> Airworthiness Directives (AD),
>
> Designated Engineering Representative (DER) data,
>
> Designated Alteration Station (DAS) data,
>
> FAA-Approved data,
>
> FAA-Approved Manufacturer's data,
>
> Supplemental Type Certificates (STC) and
>
> Appliance manufacturers manuals.
>
> END QUOTE
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-
Tom Downey
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:28 pm
Re: Form 337
'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Michael Denest
wrote:
in block 8 of the 337 "Installed IAW the King installation mannual
number ##, dated xx,xx,xx."
And have never had any problems.
I have never been required to gain pre approval on any radio
installs done by the book.
Tom Downey, A&P-IA
http://www2.whidbey.net/nc19143/index.htm'
wrote:
Every 337 on radio installs I have ever submitted, I used the phrase> Tom,
> Yes, the list says appliance manufacturers approved
> data can be used. However, in order to use it, the
> data must have been PREVIOUSLY approved by the
> Administrator.
in block 8 of the 337 "Installed IAW the King installation mannual
number ##, dated xx,xx,xx."
And have never had any problems.
I have never been required to gain pre approval on any radio
installs done by the book.
Tom Downey, A&P-IA
http://www2.whidbey.net/nc19143/index.htm'
-
Michael Denest
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 9:56 am
Re: Form 337
'--- Tom Downey wrote:
information you supply with the 337? I submit a
package with a cover letter, the 337's, a copy of the
installation manual, any AC's that may apply and the
ICA checklist. I send this package before doing the
installation. I make contact with the ASI who will be
reviewing the data and usually get it back within a
couple of weeks with Block 3 stamped and signed off.
So my question now is, what data was missing causing
it to be returned?
Mike Denest A&P IA
__________________________________
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That's interesting. I'd like to know what other>
> Every 337 on radio installs I have ever submitted, I
> used the phrase
> in block 8 of the 337 "Installed IAW the King
> installation mannual
> number ##, dated xx,xx,xx."
>
> And have never had any problems.
>
> I have never been required to gain pre approval on
> any radio
> installs done by the book.
>
> Tom Downey, A&P-IA
> http://www2.whidbey.net/nc19143/index.htm
>
>
information you supply with the 337? I submit a
package with a cover letter, the 337's, a copy of the
installation manual, any AC's that may apply and the
ICA checklist. I send this package before doing the
installation. I make contact with the ASI who will be
reviewing the data and usually get it back within a
couple of weeks with Block 3 stamped and signed off.
So my question now is, what data was missing causing
it to be returned?
Mike Denest A&P IA
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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-
robert hensarling
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:45 pm
Re: Form 337
'
'----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Downey
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Form 337
Tom, have you ever put a 200 hp Ranger in a 19? If so, were you able to get the paperwork in order for it?
Robert Hensarling
Uvalde, Tx
--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Michael Denest
wrote:
> Tom,
> Yes, the list says appliance manufacturers approved
> data can be used. However, in order to use it, the
> data must have been PREVIOUSLY approved by the
> Administrator.
Every 337 on radio installs I have ever submitted, I used the phrase
in block 8 of the 337 "Installed IAW the King installation mannual
number ##, dated xx,xx,xx."
And have never had any problems.
I have never been required to gain pre approval on any radio
installs done by the book.
Tom Downey, A&P-IA
http://www2.whidbey.net/nc19143/index.htm
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Bob & Ileen Waldron
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:53 pm
Re: Form 337
'Mike,
Closely read Tom's reply. He did NOT say that he sent the Installation
manual with the paperwork. He said "...I used the phrase in block 8 of the
337 --- Installed In Accordance With the King installation manual number ##,
dated xx,xx,xx.". If you did NOT include that statement on your
application, that is one of the 'T's that you did NOT cross.
I am certain that you also have to have something in there about 'Ongoing
Maintenance', and I am pretty sure that Tom knows the 'correct' phrase to
use.
Crossing the 'T's and dotting the 'I's, has more to do with meeting the
inspector's expectations, than anything else.
Bob Waldron
1939 24 K
Stillwater, MN
Closely read Tom's reply. He did NOT say that he sent the Installation
manual with the paperwork. He said "...I used the phrase in block 8 of the
337 --- Installed In Accordance With the King installation manual number ##,
dated xx,xx,xx.". If you did NOT include that statement on your
application, that is one of the 'T's that you did NOT cross.
I am certain that you also have to have something in there about 'Ongoing
Maintenance', and I am pretty sure that Tom knows the 'correct' phrase to
use.
Crossing the 'T's and dotting the 'I's, has more to do with meeting the
inspector's expectations, than anything else.
Bob Waldron
1939 24 K
Stillwater, MN
'----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Denest"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: Form 337
>
> --- Tom Downey wrote:
> >
> > Every 337 on radio installs I have ever submitted, I
> > used the phrase
> > in block 8 of the 337 "Installed IAW the King
> > installation mannual
> > number ##, dated xx,xx,xx."
> >
> > And have never had any problems.
> >
> > I have never been required to gain pre approval on
> > any radio
> > installs done by the book.
> >
> > Tom Downey, A&P-IA
> > http://www2.whidbey.net/nc19143/index.htm
> >
> >
> That's interesting. I'd like to know what other
> information you supply with the 337? I submit a
> package with a cover letter, the 337's, a copy of the
> installation manual, any AC's that may apply and the
> ICA checklist. I send this package before doing the
> installation. I make contact with the ASI who will be
> reviewing the data and usually get it back within a
> couple of weeks with Block 3 stamped and signed off.
> So my question now is, what data was missing causing
> it to be returned?
> Mike Denest A&P IA
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
-
Tom and Carol Burmeister
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 6:04 am
Re: Form 337
'My FAA inspector told me that the installation could not be used as approved data for installation of the radio or the transponder. Tom
Tom Downey wrote:--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Tom and Carol Burmeister
wrote:
because as they say "it does not have referenced approved data for
the installation."
transponder ? I also installed a Ameri-king AK-350 altitude
recorder that will more than likely need approved data .
installation manual from King.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Tom Downey wrote:--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Tom and Carol Burmeister
wrote:
and transponder installation in a F-24W 46 and it bounced back,> The FAA has done it again. I recently sent in a 337 for a radio
because as they say "it does not have referenced approved data for
the installation."
a installation of either or a King KY97A com and a King KT76A> Is there anyone in this Fairchild group that would have a 337 for
transponder ? I also installed a Ameri-king AK-350 altitude
recorder that will more than likely need approved data .
done on the same make and model of aircraft. "> "Approved data to the FAA is any previously approved installation
helpful,Thanks ,Tom> A copy of a 337 that has this type of installation would be very
Approved Data in this case would be Inaccordance with the>
>
>
installation manual from King.
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'