Re: PT Brakes

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:43 pm

'
One other thing.....On bleeding the brakes, the T.O. says to pressure the system with 5 PSI. I can't do this as the cap on the brake fluid reservoir is drilled and vented. Do I need a non-vented cap for initial bleeding? For full time? Do I not need to pressurize the system?
Any help would be appreciated.
Steve in OK.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 12:51 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT Brakes

Just loaded the pix under the album PT Brakes.....

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 12:45 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] PT Brakes
Just got thru rebuilding my master cylinders…..took all of about 30 minutes after removing them from the plane. Thankfully my cylinders were in excellent shape. Pix to follow if they don’t show on this e-mail.
Not sure why there are two different types. The LH one looks like it has a spot welded saddle for the fitting, and a longer end sweated on with an internal stop, possible a cheaper wartime type. RH has a tag on it with 38776 stamped on it….seems much more solid.
Used Rockauto Raybestos MK-190 kits….

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 8:00 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26

There is a rebuild kit for them if all you need is the internals and your cylinder is OK. The last answer I got was the Rockauto Raybestos MK-190 kits and appear to be identical to the parts for the PT-19/23/26 cylinder with the one inch bore.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 10:36 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26

Thank you very much, I will give them a call
Sent from my iPad

On Oct 28, 2017, at 11:26 AM, Jay Herrin jayherrin@bellsouth.net [fairchildclub] wrote:

David... try White Post Restorations. 540-837-1140

They did the master cylinders on my OTW and I’m am very happy with their work!

Jay
Sent from my iPad

On Oct 28, 2017, at 10:59 AM, David Stout aviator5@bellsouth.net [fairchildclub] wrote:

Finally found a couple of decent expander tubes for this airplane, however was disappointed to find both master cylinders leaking like a sieve.....removed them and took them apart. Bore looks fairly decent but needs new seals, cup style seals...anybody have any idea where I might find these? Thanks for any ideas you may have.

David Stout

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

tomatotruck993 · Post by **tomatotruck993** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:13 am

'The master cylinder reservoir cap should have a pipe plug and a pressure valve stem.
Here's a photo: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album535/DSC05645_sm.sized.jpg

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album5... View on willysmjeeps.com Preview by Yahoo
'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:17 am

'
I understand that, like I said the pipe plug is vented so the system cannot be pressurized.
Is that something that is done after pressurization? Swap plugs out? Is it pressurized all the time and I need to put a solid pipe plug in? I could find nothing in the T.O on pressurizing the system AFTER bleeding.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 12:13 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes
The master cylinder reservoir cap should have a pipe plug and a pressure valve stem.
Here's a photo: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album535/DSC05645_sm.sized.jpg

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album5... View on willysmjeeps.com Preview by Yahoo

'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:25 am

'
What I should have said is do you run a vented plug under normal conditions? Swap them out after bleeding? It would seem like after the brakes wear, and the 5 PSI goes down, there would be a slight vacuum on the system unless it was vented.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:17 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes

I understand that, like I said the pipe plug is vented so the system cannot be pressurized.
Is that something that is done after pressurization? Swap plugs out? Is it pressurized all the time and I need to put a solid pipe plug in? I could find nothing in the T.O on pressurizing the system AFTER bleeding.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 12:13 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes
The master cylinder reservoir cap should have a pipe plug and a pressure valve stem.
Here's a photo: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album535/DSC05645_sm.sized.jpg

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album5... View on willysmjeeps.com Preview by Yahoo

'

David Stout · Post by **David Stout** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:28 am

'The pressurization is used only to assist bleeding the brakes, it helps especially in getting the air out of the cylinder. After the brakes are bled completely and the bleeder valve is closed, top off the reservoir and replace the pipe plug...this is explained in the Fairchild maintenance manual. The problem I have is finding a rebuild kit....NAPA does not have it or at least could not identify it by the Wagner part number.

ds

On Nov 6, 2017, at 6:17 AM, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

I understand that, like I said the pipe plug is vented so the system cannot be pressurized.
Is that something that is done after pressurization? Swap plugs out? Is it pressurized all the time and I need to put a solid pipe plug in? I could find nothing in the T.O on pressurizing the system AFTER bleeding.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 12:13 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes
The master cylinder reservoir cap should have a pipe plug and a pressure valve stem.
Here's a photo: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album535/DSC05645_sm.sized.jpg [url=https://eur03.safelinks..protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwillysmjeeps.com%2Fv2%2Fmodules%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Falbum535%2FDSC05645_sm.sized.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Csteven_link%40msn.com%7C505ed669e4854495b7ff08d524dd731c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636455455895145372&sdata=v76nHIikIeSFJD2u0Yr%2FuxH5NlCFNhTdFU1Bgld%2F7EM%3D&reserved=0]

[/url] http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album5... View on willysmjeeps.com Preview by Yahoo

'

David Stout · Post by **David Stout** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:29 am

'No pressure is in the system and the plug is not vented.

ds

On Nov 6, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

What I should have said is do you run a vented plug under normal conditions? Swap them out after bleeding? It would seem like after the brakes wear, and the 5 PSI goes down, there would be a slight vacuum on the system unless it was vented.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:17 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes

I understand that, like I said the pipe plug is vented so the system cannot be pressurized.
Is that something that is done after pressurization? Swap plugs out? Is it pressurized all the time and I need to put a solid pipe plug in? I could find nothing in the T.O on pressurizing the system AFTER bleeding.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 12:13 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes
The master cylinder reservoir cap should have a pipe plug and a pressure valve stem.
Here's a photo: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album535/DSC05645_sm.sized.jpg

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album5... [url=https://eur03.safelinks.protection..outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwillysmjeeps.com%2Fv2%2Fmodules%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Falbum535%2FDSC05645_sm.sized.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Csteven_link%40msn.com%7C505ed669e4854495b7ff08d524dd731c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636455455895145372&sdata=v76nHIikIeSFJD2u0Yr%2FuxH5NlCFNhTdFU1Bgld%2F7EM%3D&reserved=0]View on willysmjeeps.com [/url] Preview by Yahoo

'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:47 am

'

Thanks, that is what I thought might be the case….
As stated on my e-mail yesterday I used Rockauto Raybestos MK-190 kits, my Cyl. Are 1”.
Thanks so much for the clarification!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve in OK…

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 5:28 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes

The pressurization is used only to assist bleeding the brakes, it helps especially in getting the air out of the cylinder. After the brakes are bled completely and the bleeder valve is closed, top off the reservoir and replace
the pipe plug...this is explained in the Fairchild maintenance manual. The problem I have is finding a rebuild kit....NAPA does not have it or at least could not identify it by the Wagner part number.

ds

On Nov 6, 2017, at 6:17 AM, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

I understand that, like I said the pipe plug is vented so the system cannot be pressurized.

Is that something that is done after pressurization? Swap plugs out? Is it pressurized all the time and I need to put a solid pipe plug in? I could find nothing in the T.O on pressurizing the system
AFTER bleeding.

From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of
wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 12:13 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes

The master cylinder reservoir cap should have a pipe plug and a pressure valve stem.

Here's a photo: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album535/DSC05645_sm.sized.jpg

[url=https://eur03.safelinks..protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwillysmjeeps.com%2Fv2%2Fmodules%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Falbum535%2FDSC05645_sm.sized.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Csteven_link%40msn.com%7C505ed669e4854495b7ff08d524dd731c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636455455895145372&sdata=v76nHIikIeSFJD2u0Yr%2FuxH5NlCFNhTdFU1Bgld%2F7EM%3D&reserved=0]

[/url]

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album5...

View
on willysmjeeps.com

Preview by Yahoo

'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:59 am

'
Dang, I've read and reread the manual.....can't find where it says to replace the plug.
Not that I am doubting you, as it only makes sense to eventually vent the system. Just wondered where they hid it in all the procedures.
I'm going to get a solid plug tonight. Is it 1/2"? I can't remember and the hangar is 30 miles away!!!
Thanks for all the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:47 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes
Thanks, that is what I thought might be the case…. As stated on my e-mail yesterday I used Rockauto Raybestos MK-190 kits, my Cyl. Are 1”. Thanks so much for the clarification!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Steve in OK… From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 5:28 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes The pressurization is used only to assist bleeding the brakes, it helps especially in getting the air out of the cylinder. After the brakes are bled completely and the bleeder valve is closed, top off the reservoir and replace the pipe plug...this is explained in the Fairchild maintenance manual. The problem I have is finding a rebuild kit....NAPA does not have it or at least could not identify it by the Wagner part number. ds

On Nov 6, 2017, at 6:17 AM, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

I understand that, like I said the pipe plug is vented so the system cannot be pressurized.
Is that something that is done after pressurization? Swap plugs out? Is it pressurized all the time and I need to put a solid pipe plug in? I could find nothing in the T.O on pressurizing the system AFTER bleeding. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 12:13 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes The master cylinder reservoir cap should have a pipe plug and a pressure valve stem. Here's a photo: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album535/DSC05645_sm.sized.jpg [url=https://eur03.safelinks..protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwillysmjeeps.com%2Fv2%2Fmodules%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Falbum535%2FDSC05645_sm.sized.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Csteven_link%40msn.com%7C505ed669e4854495b7ff08d524dd731c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636455455895145372&sdata=v76nHIikIeSFJD2u0Yr%2FuxH5NlCFNhTdFU1Bgld%2F7EM%3D&reserved=0]

[/url] http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album5... View on willysmjeeps.com Preview by Yahoo
'

tomatotruck993 · Post by **tomatotruck993** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:20 am

'Steve,
You add the 5 psi during the bleeding operation only. In the setup in the photo the air stem says there and the vented fill plug is replace with a non-vented plug during the bleeding operation only. Then the vented fill plug is re-installed after the bleeding.
A step you can take to make it more simple is take a solid brass filler plug, drill an 1/6" to 1/8" vent hole down the middle, then drill a 1/4" deep hole centered on the vent hole for a 6-32 threaded screw. Then use the screw to plug the vent during bleeding operations. This way you do not wear out either set of threads in the cap.'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:26 am

'
Excellent suggestion! Is the plug 1/2"?

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 9:20 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: PT Brakes
Steve,
You add the 5 psi during the bleeding operation only. In the setup in the photo the air stem says there and the vented fill plug is replace with a non-vented plug during the bleeding operation only. Then the vented fill plug is re-installed after the bleeding.
A step you can take to make it more simple is take a solid brass filler plug, drill an 1/6" to 1/8" vent hole down the middle, then drill a 1/4" deep hole centered on the vent hole for a 6-32 threaded screw. Then use the screw to plug the vent during bleeding operations. This way you do not wear out either set of threads in the cap.
'