SV: RE: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24

[Elton Hanneman]

' I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first. Elton N28525 '

[robert Etter]

'Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast.Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.
I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.
Again, good luck
Bob

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first. Elton N28525 #ygrps-yiv-41115907 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117 -- #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-41115907 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-41115907 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-41115907 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-41115907 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-41115907 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117 #ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-41115907yiv9702235117ad p { margin:0;} 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[Elton Hanneman]

'







Hi Robert
     FYI  ½ turn = ¼ degree. I found that out yesterday. I decided to leave my wings flat twist wise. Will get a test flight on it first and then change it
if I am not happy with it. I will be happy just to get it off the ground I got it in a basket. I found out over the years on the small low powered stuff that wash out can up your cruise at the same power and make the inboard stall first so you would still
have good aileron control.
Thanks for the reply
Elton
 


From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:35 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24


 
 






Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge,
mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy
all the way to the east coast.



Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that
I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.


 


I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.


 


Again, good luck


 


Bob


 


 




On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hanneman
elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:


 


 




 





I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash
the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first.
Elton
N28525
















'

[Buster Colvin]

'What year wings will fit a 37g? I have 41 &46 wings , are they all the same , basically

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 26, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Robert Etter robertetter@ymail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast.Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.
I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.
Again, good luck
Bob

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first. Elton N28525
'

[frank gochenauer]

'
Frank died in March. Please discontinue e-mails. Thank you


From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Buster Colvin bt13bc@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 12:51 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24    
What year wings will fit a 37g? I have 41 &46 wings , are they all the same , basically

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 26, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Robert Etter robertetter@ymail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast. Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.
I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.
Again, good luck
Bob

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first. Elton N28525

'

[frank gochenauer]

'
Frank died in March please discontinue e-mails. Thank you


From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 11:19 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24    
Hi Robert      FYI  ½ turn = ¼ degree. I found that out yesterday. I decided to leave my wings flat twist wise. Will get a test flight on it first and then change it if I am not happy with it. I will be happy just to get it off the ground I got it in a basket. I found out over the years on the small low powered stuff that wash out can up your cruise at the same power and make the inboard stall first so you would still have good aileron control. Thanks for the reply Elton   From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:35 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24     Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast. Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.   I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.   Again, good luck   Bob     On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:       I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first. Elton N28525
'

[frank gochenauer]

'
Frank died in March please discontinue e-mails. Thank you


From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Robert Etter robertetter@ymail.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 10:34 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24    
Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast. Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.
I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.
Again, good luck
Bob

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first. Elton N28525

'

[robert Etter]

'I can agree with that.  I has a J-3 with recommended wash out and it did good.  With a 65 Cont., I cruises at 85 mph above 10Kft, full throttle and leaned out to less than 3 gph from take off to landing.  I used the mixture function on the Stromberg.  It was different.  You could never shut it down with the mixture, pull it full on and it would just surge.  It would get a burst of fuel when the pressure in the carb reach ambient pressure.
Regarding the 24, the part I hate, is it is faster with the wheel fairings off, versus on.
Thanks for the information on the amount is change to the strut length versus degrees of change.  It confirms what I was thinking.  I figured that being within less than 0.1 degrees was close enough.  I guess that the proof in the pudding is when I get the old girl up for the first time, maybe the second or third time.   It may take that long before I get over the joy of flying the Fairchild for the first time since June 1973.  The photo of 81340, that is in the Club Photo gallery is of the Fairchild the last time she flew.  Little did it know at the time, one of the dog ears on the master rod was cracked.   It didn't take a dye check to find it.  If you look close at the steps, it looks strange.  I had transported an Aeronca aileron from Paul Valley OK to KC.
On my rigging method.  I used a dry wall "T" square and a plumb line.  It worked out that 3/4" on the long scale was equal to 0.1 degrees.
Thanks for the information.
Bob

On Saturday, August 26, 2017, 8:19:57 AM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 


Hi Robert

     FYI  ½ turn = ¼ degree. I found that out yesterday. I decided to leave my wings flat twist wise. Will get a test flight on it first and then change it if I am not happy with it. I will be happy just to get it off the ground I got it in a basket. I found out over the years on the small low powered stuff that wash out can up your cruise at the same power and make the inboard stall first so you would still have good aileron control.

Thanks for the reply

Elton

 

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:35 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24

 

 

Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast.

Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.

 

I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.

 

Again, good luck

 

Bob

 

 

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hannemanelton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

 

 

I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first.

Elton

N28525


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

[Francis Cox]

'FWIW - The the structural repair manual for C61 Airplanes (I am using it during the restoration of a UC61K 'Argus') has a shortl paragraph -

INCIDENCE AND DIHEDRAL
"The wing incidence (1 degree) is built into the fuselage fittings. The dihedral; (21/2 degrees) is fixed by the length of the front lift strut. Adjus toutboard incidence (reading taken on first rib outboard of lift strut fitting) by means of forked bolts in upper ends of rear lift struts. Balance out any difference between inboard and outboard readings"

I took that to mean there is no washout.

Frank Cox
F24 Argus G-BCBL

 

On 27 August 2017 at 16:58, Robert Etter robertetter@ymail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
 
I can agree with that.  I has a J-3 with recommended wash out and it did good.  With a 65 Cont., I cruises at 85 mph above 10Kft, full throttle and leaned out to less than 3 gph from take off to landing.  I used the mixture function on the Stromberg.  It was different.  You could never shut it down with the mixture, pull it full on and it would just surge.  It would get a burst of fuel when the pressure in the carb reach ambient pressure.
Regarding the 24, the part I hate, is it is faster with the wheel fairings off, versus on.
Thanks for the information on the amount is change to the strut length versus degrees of change.  It confirms what I was thinking.  I figured that being within less than 0.1 degrees was close enough.  I guess that the proof in the pudding is when I get the old girl up for the first time, maybe the second or third time.   It may take that long before I get over the joy of flying the Fairchild for the first time since June 1973.  The photo of 81340, that is in the Club Photo gallery is of the Fairchild the last time she flew.  Little did it know at the time, one of the dog ears on the master rod was cracked.   It didn't take a dye check to find it.  If you look close at the steps, it looks strange.  I had transported an Aeronca aileron from Paul Valley OK to KC.
On my rigging method.  I used a dry wall "T" square and a plumb line.  It worked out that 3/4" on the long scale was equal to 0.1 degrees.
Thanks for the information.
Bob

On Saturday, August 26, 2017, 8:19:57 AM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

Hi Robert

     FYI  ½ turn = ¼ degree. I found that out yesterday. I decided to leave my wings flat twist wise. Will get a test flight on it first and then change it if I am not happy with it. I will be happy just to get it off the ground I got it in a basket. I found out over the years on the small low powered stuff that wash out can up your cruise at the same power and make the inboard stall first so you would still have good aileron control.

Thanks for the reply

Elton

 

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:35 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24

 

 

Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast.

Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.

 

I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.

 

Again, good luck

 

Bob

 

 

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hannemanelton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

 

 

I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first.

Elton

N28525


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

[Elton Hanneman]

'







Thanks Frank

         That is exactly what I did Friday. And planed to get a test flight on it before I did anything else. I could correct any roll after that. Sounds like
every book is a little different. I found the same thing rebuilding antique motorcycles. The military version of balancing the Indian crank to be the best .
Elton N28525
 


From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 12:52 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24


 
 









FWIW - The the structural repair manual for C61 Airplanes (I am using it during the restoration of a UC61K 'Argus') has a shortl paragraph -

INCIDENCE AND DIHEDRAL

"The wing incidence (1 degree) is built into the fuselage fittings. The dihedral; (21/2 degrees) is fixed by the length of the front lift strut. Adjus toutboard incidence (reading taken on first rib outboard
of lift strut fitting) by means of forked bolts in upper ends of rear lift struts. Balance out any difference between inboard and outboard readings"

I took that to mean there is no washout.

Frank Cox


F24 Argus G-BCBL









 









 

On 27 August 2017 at 16:58, Robert Etter robertetter@ymail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

 



I can agree with that.  I has a J-3 with recommended wash out and it did good.  With a 65 Cont., I cruises at 85 mph above 10Kft, full throttle and leaned out to less than 3 gph from take off to landing.  I used
the mixture function on the Stromberg.  It was different.  You could never shut it down with the mixture, pull it full on and it would just surge.  It would get a burst of fuel when the pressure in the carb reach ambient pressure.
Regarding the 24, the part I hate, is it is faster with the wheel fairings off, versus on.
Thanks for the information on the amount is change to the strut length versus degrees of change.  It confirms what I was thinking.  I figured that being within less than 0.1 degrees was close enough.  I guess that the proof in the pudding is when I get the
old girl up for the first time, maybe the second or third time.   It may take that long before I get over the joy of flying the Fairchild for the first time since June 1973.  The photo of 81340, that is in the Club Photo gallery is of the Fairchild the last
time she flew.  Little did it know at the time, one of the dog ears on the master rod was cracked.   It didn't take a dye check to find it.  If you look close at the steps, it looks strange.  I had transported an Aeronca aileron from Paul Valley OK to KC.
On my rigging method.  I used a dry wall "T" square and a plumb line.  It worked out that 3/4" on the long scale was equal to 0.1 degrees.
Thanks for the information.
Bob

On Saturday, August 26, 2017, 8:19:57 AM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

Hi Robert

     FYI  ½ turn = ¼ degree. I found that out yesterday. I decided to leave my wings flat twist wise. Will get a test flight on it first and then change it if I am not happy with it. I will be happy just to get it off the ground I got it in a basket. I found
out over the years on the small low powered stuff that wash out can up your cruise at the same power and make the inboard stall first so you would still have good aileron control.


Thanks for the reply

Elton

 

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:35 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24

 

 

Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the
left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast.

Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.

 

I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.

 

Again, good luck

 

Bob

 

 

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hannemanelton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

 

 

I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first.

Elton

N28525


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