Re: Construction of new F24 doors.

[Mark Gilmore]

'Fairchild group,

Anyone have tips concerning the construction of new F24 wood doors.
We have the old doors as patterns but what I’m looking for are ideas for improvements, construction methods, things that went right and went wrong.
All with making the door work / shut – open easier and survive another 70+ years.

Photos would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett & Mark Gilmore

NC81288
1946 W24

gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com'

[Richard Ellingworth]

'
Hi Mark


I rebuilt my doors last year as per the original doors on my aircraft.  1 year later and they are falling apart already!  I think the glass is to heavy and they seem to move and warp depending on the weather, very damp here in the UK!  I need to rebuild my doors again so will be keen to hear if you find any useful information.  I may try a decency guilty perspex instead of the glass next time round.


All the best


Richard

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Mark Gilmore gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: 20 March 2017 15:16
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Construction of new F24 doors.    
Fairchild group,

Anyone have tips concerning the construction of new F24 wood doors.
We have the old doors as patterns but what I’m looking for are ideas for improvements, construction methods, things that went right and went wrong.
All with making the door work / shut – open easier and survive another 70+ years.

Photos would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett & Mark Gilmore

NC81288
1946 W24

gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com
'

[robert Etter]

'I did my doors several years ago.  As you can see, the inside surface of the doors is flat.  Maybe make a jig for each door.  With the doors still assembled, you can get the blocks in the right place.  You can look at the photos that I send, there maybe something of use there.  One thing that is did, out if being cheap.  On the rear door post, I started with the same thickness of material as the top, front, and bottom, but since the rear is supposed to be thicker, i laminated plywood to what would be the front and rear to make up the thickness that is required.  I don't remember whether I need 1/8" or 1/16" on both sides.  It fortified the wood, which I noted had cracked on OE, never installed doors.  On the OE doors, they used a 1/4" spruce gussets on each of the 4 corners.  I replace that with 4 ea 1/16" plywood gussets on each corner.  2 flush to the inner & outer edges, and the other 2 were evenly spaced across the corners.  The inner and outer edges of the corner were routed to 1/16" deep,  and the other 2 were cut with a hand saw.  You can use a block of wood and some shims to keep the blade flat.  Got lucky, the blade gave me a good snug fit for the Plywood gusset.  Plenty of epoxy and you will do fine.  Use thin plastic sheet under the corners so it doesn't stick to the jig.If you haven't noticed, the glass is thinner than 1/4", and you probably won't find a duplicate thickness.  Maybe replace the safety glass with plexi-glass.  Be careful taking the track off the bottom of the glass.  If you don't replace the glass, forget what I just said.When you start getting close the the point that you want to start gluing it together, verify that the outer door skin fits.  Don't make it to tight on the top half of the door.  You have multiple layers of fabric to deal with, front, rear, and top.If your wood if in sad shape, I have 2 OE, never used doors that are good for patterns and nothing else.  The rear post is cracked and every glue joint failed without much help, if any. You can find window channel at some of those places that replace auto glass.
Bob775-482-9243

On Monday, March 20, 2017 10:07 AM, "Richard Ellingworth richardecho@hotmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Hi Mark
I rebuilt my doors last year as per the original doors on my aircraft.  1 year later and they are falling apart already!  I think the glass is to heavy and they seem to move and warp depending on the weather, very damp here in the UK!  I need to rebuild my doors again so will be keen to hear if you find any useful information.  I may try a decency guilty perspex instead of the glass next time round.
All the best
Richard

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Mark Gilmore gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: 20 March 2017 15:16
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Construction of new F24 doors.     Fairchild group,

Anyone have tips concerning the construction of new F24 wood doors.
We have the old doors as patterns but what I’m looking for are ideas for improvements, construction methods, things that went right and went wrong.
All with making the door work / shut – open easier and survive another 70+ years.

Photos would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett & Mark Gilmore

NC81288
1946 W24

gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com
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'

[Francis Cox]

'Mark,

I made all new doors using the old ones as a pattern and also, before gluing it, I  made sure that each one fitted in its respective frame as all fuselage woodwork had been replaced - I used 1/8" shims between the door and frame on all sides to give clearance to allow for fabric wrap around the door frame and door upholstery. I found that this 1/8th was barely enough, especially on the aft edge

For reinforcement of the corners I cut a 1/8" slot at 45* across each corner and epoxied a ply 'tongue' in it - at the time it seemed the neatest way. However I have not finished the rebuild yet so we shall see in due course if they are man enough for the job. In my case the old door skins were shot so custom ones  made to fit each frame individually.

Hope this helps or gives you another angle on it.

Frank Cox
Argus III  G-BCBL  - nearing completion!!

On 20 March 2017 at 17:07, Richard Ellingworth richardecho@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
 

Hi Mark


I rebuilt my doors last year as per the original doors on my aircraft.  1 year later and they are falling apart already!  I think the glass is to heavy and they seem to move and warp depending on the weather, very damp here in the UK!  I need to rebuild my doors again so will be keen to hear if you find any useful information.  I may try a decency guilty perspex instead of the glass next time round.


All the best


Richard

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Mark Gilmore gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: 20 March 2017 15:16
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Construction of new F24 doors.    
Fairchild group,

Anyone have tips concerning the construction of new F24 wood doors.
We have the old doors as patterns but what I’m looking for are ideas for improvements, construction methods, things that went right and went wrong.
All with making the door work / shut – open easier and survive another 70+ years.

Photos would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett & Mark Gilmore

NC81288
1946 W24

gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com

'

[patteenews]

'Trying to replace odd interior door handles with the '46 Ford Custom proper handles.  Turns out the interior door handle receiver on the inside of the door structure is the wrong size (thus ugly door handles ~ stamped VW of all things).  I have the correct triangular receiver to mate the Ford handles.  Question for those who have just rebuilt the door:  Can I just unscrew the metal exterior sheet of the door to get to the 'guts'?  I plan to remove the door at the hinges and hopefully replace the interior receiver after lifting the exterior skin.
Outside handles have already been replaced with the '37 (?) Ford 'Torpedo' handles.
Thank you,David Pattee'46 F24R

On Mar 21, 2017, at 04:31, Francis Cox frankjcox44@gmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
Mark,

I made all new doors using the old ones as a pattern and also, before gluing it, I  made sure that each one fitted in its respective frame as all fuselage woodwork had been replaced - I used 1/8" shims between the door and frame on all sides to give clearance to allow for fabric wrap around the door frame and door upholstery. I found that this 1/8th was barely enough, especially on the aft edge

For reinforcement of the corners I cut a 1/8" slot at 45* across each corner and epoxied a ply 'tongue' in it - at the time it seemed the neatest way. However I have not finished the rebuild yet so we shall see in due course if they are man enough for the job. In my case the old door skins were shot so custom ones  made to fit each frame individually.

Hope this helps or gives you another angle on it.

Frank Cox
Argus III  G-BCBL  - nearing completion!!

On 20 March 2017 at 17:07, Richard Ellingworth richardecho@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
 

Hi Mark


I rebuilt my doors last year as per the original doors on my aircraft.  1 year later and they are falling apart already!  I think the glass is to heavy and they seem to move and warp depending on the weather, very damp here in the UK!  I need to rebuild my doors again so will be keen to hear if you find any useful information.  I may try a decency guilty perspex instead of the glass next time round.


All the best


Richard

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Mark Gilmore gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: 20 March 2017 15:16
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Construction of new F24 doors.    
Fairchild group,

Anyone have tips concerning the construction of new F24 wood doors.
We have the old doors as patterns but what I’m looking for are ideas for improvements, construction methods, things that went right and went wrong.
All with making the door work / shut – open easier and survive another 70+ years.

Photos would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett & Mark Gilmore

NC81288
1946 W24

gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com



'

[robert Etter]

'Unless I am mistaken, The interior handles were Studebaker.  I replaced the escutcheon plate with a thin bright chrome plate that I bought at Ace Hardware in the plumbing dept.  The dimensions on all axis was close.Just thought, the photo may not go through.Bob.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:13 AM, "patteenews patteenews@gmail.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Trying to replace odd interior door handles with the '46 Ford Custom proper handles.  Turns out the interior door handle receiver on the inside of the door structure is the wrong size (thus ugly door handles ~ stamped VW of all things).  I have the correct triangular receiver to mate the Ford handles.  Question for those who have just rebuilt the door:  Can I just unscrew the metal exterior sheet of the door to get to the 'guts'?  I plan to remove the door at the hinges and hopefully replace the interior receiver after lifting the exterior skin.
Outside handles have already been replaced with the '37 (?) Ford 'Torpedo' handles.
Thank you,David Pattee'46 F24R
On Mar 21, 2017, at 04:31, Francis Cox frankjcox44@gmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:


  Mark,

I made all new doors using the old ones as a pattern and also, before gluing it, I  made sure that each one fitted in its respective frame as all fuselage woodwork had been replaced - I used 1/8" shims between the door and frame on all sides to give clearance to allow for fabric wrap around the door frame and door upholstery. I found that this 1/8th was barely enough, especially on the aft edge

For reinforcement of the corners I cut a 1/8" slot at 45* across each corner and epoxied a ply 'tongue' in it - at the time it seemed the neatest way. However I have not finished the rebuild yet so we shall see in due course if they are man enough for the job. In my case the old door skins were shot so custom ones  made to fit each frame individually.

Hope this helps or gives you another angle on it.

Frank Cox
Argus III  G-BCBL  - nearing completion!!

On 20 March 2017 at 17:07, Richard Ellingworth richardecho@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

  Hi Mark
I rebuilt my doors last year as per the original doors on my aircraft.  1 year later and they are falling apart already!  I think the glass is to heavy and they seem to move and warp depending on the weather, very damp here in the UK!  I need to rebuild my doors again so will be keen to hear if you find any useful information.  I may try a decency guilty perspex instead of the glass next time round.
All the best
Richard

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Mark Gilmore gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: 20 March 2017 15:16
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Construction of new F24 doors.  Fairchild group,

Anyone have tips concerning the construction of new F24 wood doors.
We have the old doors as patterns but what I’m looking for are ideas for improvements, construction methods, things that went right and went wrong.
All with making the door work / shut – open easier and survive another 70+ years.

Photos would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett & Mark Gilmore

NC81288
1946 W24

gilmoreredlion@yahoo.com



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