' Fitting new brake shoes is an exercise in getting the pad material to have the same radius as the drum, and the right degree of concentricity to it. Machining the linings gives them the best chance to make full contact. It’s a good start, and break-in from use can quickly do the rest of the “fitting”, as you can imagine. This had to be done all the time with re-lining drum brakes in the past – very common. There are quite a few old “brake lathes” for sale, too, having been rendered not so useful by the wide proliferation of disc (caliper) brakes in the last several decades. There have got to be lots of old vintage car shops that will do your brakes. Vintage Brake ( http://www.vintagebrake.com/ ) does this. They can put new linings on old shoes, too. I found them for doing work on old motorcycle racing brakes. I have not asked the guys at Vintage Brake about airplanes, but I think it would be no trick at all for them. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 11:50 AM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly Well dang, closest I have to that is the E&M manual 01-115GA-2 with no inspection criteria. Just talks about "proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the blue print of brake assembly"....
I would hope that the clearance is the same in the PT as it is in the UC-61 as they are very similar systems....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
Re: Brake assembly
Re: Brake assembly
'
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
'
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: Brake assembly
' Bill, did you experience the moisture problem before you changed over to DOT 5?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:36:54 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
'
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:36:54 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
-
Joe Preston
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:29 am
Re: Brake assembly
' So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: Brake assembly
' DOT 3 is what the system was originally designed for. If you put 5606 in it(like most all other aircraft) it will ruin all your seals, O-rings, expander tubes, and master cylinders, causing a complete rebuild of the whole system....a mistake some Fairchild owners have made in the past.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
'
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: Brake assembly
' Joe, I've never really understood why they did this.....99.9% of the aircraft at the time were using 5606 but some manufacturers elected to use automotive type components. I guess it saved money and war materials at the time, I don't know. Anyone have any insight as to why this was used on a minority of aircraft? Did they use DOT 3 on any other aircraft, or in any other countries?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
'
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
Re: Brake assembly
'The prototype for the P51 used automotive brake components. Some expander bladders are designed for automotive... Use 5605 and they disolve. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:10 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly Joe, I've never really understood why they did this.....99.9% of the aircraft at the time were using 5606 but some manufacturers elected to use automotive type components. I guess it saved money and war materials at the time, I don't know. Anyone have any insight as to why this was used on a minority of aircraft? Did they use DOT 3 on any other aircraft, or in any other countries?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me.Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:10 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly Joe, I've never really understood why they did this.....99.9% of the aircraft at the time were using 5606 but some manufacturers elected to use automotive type components. I guess it saved money and war materials at the time, I don't know. Anyone have any insight as to why this was used on a minority of aircraft? Did they use DOT 3 on any other aircraft, or in any other countries?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me.Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
'
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles. Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote: Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
-
Joe Preston
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:29 am
Re: Brake assembly
' I would surmise that with today's seals it shouldn't matter, but I am not an expert. JP
Sent from my iPad Mini
Joe, I've never really understood why they did this.....99.9% of the aircraft at the time were using 5606 but some manufacturers elected to use automotive type components. I guess it saved money and war materials at the time, I don't know. Anyone have any insight as to why this was used on a minority of aircraft? Did they use DOT 3 on any other aircraft, or in any other countries?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
'
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 22:12, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Joe, I've never really understood why they did this.....99.9% of the aircraft at the time were using 5606 but some manufacturers elected to use automotive type components. I guess it saved money and war materials at the time, I don't know. Anyone have any insight as to why this was used on a minority of aircraft? Did they use DOT 3 on any other aircraft, or in any other countries?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: Brake assembly
' It does matter. We had a string a few months ago and someone was trying out different fluids with different O-rings. 5606 will still affect the automotive type cups and parts in the master cylinders.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:24:52 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I would surmise that with today's seals it shouldn't matter, but I am not an expert. JP
Sent from my iPad Mini
'
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:24:52 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I would surmise that with today's seals it shouldn't matter, but I am not an expert. JP
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 22:12, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Joe, I've never really understood why they did this.....99.9% of the aircraft at the time were using 5606 but some manufacturers elected to use automotive type components. I guess it saved money and war materials at the time, I don't know. Anyone have any insight as to why this was used on a minority of aircraft? Did they use DOT 3 on any other aircraft, or in any other countries?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'
-
Dennis Strong
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:39 am
Re: Brake assembly
' After seeing all of these posts on brakes and fluids, I m happy with my mechanical brakes good Ole Fairchild 24 H model NC 16904
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
Date: 04/02/2016 5:29 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
It does matter. We had a string a few months ago and someone was trying out different fluids with different O-rings. 5606 will still affect the automotive type cups and parts in the master cylinders.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:24:52 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I would surmise that with today's seals it shouldn't matter, but I am not an expert. JP
Sent from my iPad Mini
'
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
Date: 04/02/2016 5:29 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
It does matter. We had a string a few months ago and someone was trying out different fluids with different O-rings. 5606 will still affect the automotive type cups and parts in the master cylinders.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:24:52 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I would surmise that with today's seals it shouldn't matter, but I am not an expert. JP
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 22:12, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Joe, I've never really understood why they did this.....99.9% of the aircraft at the time were using 5606 but some manufacturers elected to use automotive type components. I guess it saved money and war materials at the time, I don't know. Anyone have any insight as to why this was used on a minority of aircraft? Did they use DOT 3 on any other aircraft, or in any other countries?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:47:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
So I have been following this thread and I keep asking myself, why are you not using 5606 or the new version of hydraulic fluid in your brake systems? It seems silly to me to be using automotive brake fluid in aircraft. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, please enlighten me. Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Apr 1, 2016, at 19:37, William crei6845@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Steve, I'm running DOT 5 in my Hayes setup. However, the moisture contamination you mentioned below is real. I experienced severe corrosion at the bleeder nipples, to the point they wouldn't seal. Ultimately had to replace the entire block and nipple. Beyond that, both master cylinder bores were also corroded over time, to the point that we had to overbore and sleeve. Ultimately had to replace MC too.
Not cheap or easy, so we shouldn't take the problem lightly. FYI, I'm in Houston area (humid), but always hangered.
Bill C.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 8:38 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
A personal safety item you should know. When working with the brakes, keep in mind that the pads are asbestos and must be treated with caution when sanding or machining. Use a proper mask with filters and a good dust collection system to collect the particles.
Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
- Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:25 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
Matt, that is some reassuring info. After talking to several of you in the group, I am feeling much more confident. I have everything to rebuild them from the master cyl on down and plan to flush the system with denatured alcohol and probably fill with DOT 5 fluid....have not decided yet. While DOT 5 can't draw moisture thru the air, the one bad thing is any moisture that gets in can pool in a low spot causing corrosion. I really don't think that will be a problem as the PT is a hangared baby and not subjected to any type of moisture contamination like cars and motorcycles, etc. DOT 3/4/5.1 is glycol based and can draw moisture microscopically thru the lines and open master cylinder, but it won't pool. It also should be changed out every 3 to 5 years just to be safe and to prevent corrosion. So much info out there on this subject!!!!
What is most of the group running, Glycol based or Synthetic?
Again, thanks for everyone's help in this!!!!!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:26 +0000
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
Steve,
A lot of folks complain about the capability of the Hayes expander brakes but I can tell you that I am perfectly happy with mine. The reason .... because I set them up properly from the beginning. I have 275 HP on the front of my F24 and the Hayes brakes hold the plane at high power settings with no problem. When I restored the brakes on my plane there were a lot of issues so I basically refurbished or replaced every part from the masters down to the weels. When it came to installing the brake pads, I wasn't aware of a procedure to fit them so I asked. Unfortunately what I got was, "take a wood rasp and just rake them down till they fit in the drum". I knew there was a 0.010" clearance requirement and that hand fitting was not going to produce an acceptable result in my book. Unaware that there was also a procedure, I took it upon myself to build up the brake assemblies, mount them on a southbend lathe, and machine them very precisely. The brakes must be machined specifically to the drum they are going in. As you know 0.010" is not much room for error. Mic the drum ID and machine the pads OD occordingly. You should be able to get any local machine shop to do this or maybe enlist some help from one of the forum members. Mine ended up dead on 0.010" clearance and they work great. Unfotunately this is not something you can just buy off the shelf as a ready to go assembly. It requires custom fitting for each installation. Also, make sure that the little spring plates between the pads are in good condition. These are what release the brakes. I had a few that had lost their heat treat or spring. I was able to re-heat treat mine and they work fine but test each one before installing.
Hope this helps.
Matt
F24W-46 / Jacobs 755B2
GA
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Brake assembly
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 9:13 PM
Man, the guys in this forum are the
best.....
Thanks Bob!!!!!
Tailwinds, Steve in OK....
To:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From:
fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31
Mar 2016 01:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re:
[fairchildclub] Brake assembly
I found this in the AN 01-115CA-2, pg. 96, wheels and Brakes,
25-30 hr. inspection, 2nd paragraph, " Check
clearance between brake lining and brake
drum. Clearance should be .010
clearance."Bob
On Wednesday, March
30, 2016 3:50 PM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com
[fairchildclub]"
wrote:
Hey guys, I
was going to replace the pads and now I understand that
when replacing the pads then need to be turned to a certain
dimension? I haven’t found the drawing yet for the
dimension. I was mistakenly under the assumption that you
just replaced them. Then I saw the T.O. and the statement
"New blocks must be ground, concentric with center hole
in brake on suitable machine to a diameter that will give
proper clearance for brake in drum as specified on the
blueprint of brake assembly."
A "suitable" machine? A lathe?
At any rate, it would be much simpler if
I could just swap out the assemblies….Do you know of anyone that sells them in
the backing plate as an assembly ready to
install?Thanks again, Steve in
OK.
'