' These cylinders are also used on Beech 18.. Don’t remember name of dealer in California that had a bunch of them.. Check internet From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:59 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job. Roger Starr NC77630 From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Steve, This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone.... Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right? Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right? Peace, Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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'
Re: PT-26 Brake Masters
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: PT-26 Brake Masters
' John, are you talking about the F24 or PT master cyl., just want to make sure.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:56:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
These cylinders are also used on Beech 18.. Don’t remember name of dealer in California that had a bunch of them.. Check internet From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:59 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job. Roger Starr NC77630 From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Steve, This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone.... Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right? Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right? Peace, Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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'
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:56:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
These cylinders are also used on Beech 18.. Don’t remember name of dealer in California that had a bunch of them.. Check internet From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:59 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job. Roger Starr NC77630 From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Steve, This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone.... Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right? Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right? Peace, Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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'
-
John Ellis
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:37 pm
Re: PT-26 Brake Masters
' I put them on my PT-19, no knowledge about F series .. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:07 AM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
John, are you talking about the F24 or PT master cyl., just want to make sure.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:56:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
These cylinders are also used on Beech 18.. Don’t remember name of dealer in California that had a bunch of them.. Check internet From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:59 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job. Roger Starr NC77630 From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Steve, This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone.... Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right? Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right? Peace, Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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'
John, are you talking about the F24 or PT master cyl., just want to make sure.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:56:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
These cylinders are also used on Beech 18.. Don’t remember name of dealer in California that had a bunch of them.. Check internet From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:59 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job. Roger Starr NC77630 From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Steve, This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone.... Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right? Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right? Peace, Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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'
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: PT-26 Brake Masters
' LOL!!! OK John, Just wanted to clarify. I'll most likely need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 soon as it will hopefully be flying this fall....
Just heard from Mark Howard. He's enjoying his PT-26 at Oshkosh!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:43:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
I put them on my PT-19, no knowledge about F series .. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:07 AM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
John, are you talking about the F24 or PT master cyl., just want to make sure.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:56:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
These cylinders are also used on Beech 18.. Don’t remember name of dealer in California that had a bunch of them.. Check internet From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:59 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job. Roger Starr NC77630 From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Steve, This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone.... Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right? Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right? Peace, Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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'
Just heard from Mark Howard. He's enjoying his PT-26 at Oshkosh!
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:43:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
I put them on my PT-19, no knowledge about F series .. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:07 AM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
John, are you talking about the F24 or PT master cyl., just want to make sure.
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:56:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
These cylinders are also used on Beech 18.. Don’t remember name of dealer in California that had a bunch of them.. Check internet From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:59 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job. Roger Starr NC77630 From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Steve, This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone.... Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right? Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right? Peace, Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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-
Ellen Starr
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:03 pm
Re: PT-26 Brake Masters
'No it was not Karp's. Was Sierra Specialty Automotive. But they retired in 2013! However their website is still up and they mention Karp's and a couple of others as alternative sources. You might like to look at Sierra's site.'Roger
From: Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Thank you Roger, I don't suppose it was this place, was it? http://karpspb.com/ "Karp's Power Brake Rebuilding and Stainless Steel Resleeving." If not, and you have someone you are happy with AND it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate the contact info.
Tom Rood
From: "Ellen Starr ellengstarr@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job.Roger StarrNC77630
From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake http://karpspb.com/thankyou.htm Masters
Steve,This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone....
Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right?
Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right?
Peace,Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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From: Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Thank you Roger, I don't suppose it was this place, was it? http://karpspb.com/ "Karp's Power Brake Rebuilding and Stainless Steel Resleeving." If not, and you have someone you are happy with AND it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate the contact info.
Tom Rood
From: "Ellen Starr ellengstarr@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job.Roger StarrNC77630
From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake http://karpspb.com/thankyou.htm Masters
Steve,This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone....
Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right?
Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right?
Peace,Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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'
Re: PT-26 Brake Masters
' Thanks Roger!
Sent from my mobile device.
-------- Original message --------
From: "Ellen Starr ellengstarr@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
Date: 07/20/2015 13:09 (GMT-05:00)
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
No it was not Karp's. Was Sierra Specialty Automotive. But they retired in 2013! However their website is still up and they mention Karp's and a couple of others as alternative sources. You might like to look at Sierra's site.'Roger
From: Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Thank you Roger, I don't suppose it was this place, was it? http://karpspb.com/ "Karp's Power Brake Rebuilding and Stainless Steel Resleeving." If not, and you have someone you are happy with AND it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate the contact info.
Tom Rood
From: "Ellen Starr ellengstarr@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job.Roger StarrNC77630
From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake http://karpspb.com/thankyou.htm Masters
Steve,This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone....
Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right?
Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right?
Peace,Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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Sent from my mobile device.
-------- Original message --------
From: "Ellen Starr ellengstarr@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
Date: 07/20/2015 13:09 (GMT-05:00)
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
No it was not Karp's. Was Sierra Specialty Automotive. But they retired in 2013! However their website is still up and they mention Karp's and a couple of others as alternative sources. You might like to look at Sierra's site.'Roger
From: Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Thank you Roger, I don't suppose it was this place, was it? http://karpspb.com/ "Karp's Power Brake Rebuilding and Stainless Steel Resleeving." If not, and you have someone you are happy with AND it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate the contact info.
Tom Rood
From: "Ellen Starr ellengstarr@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Yes, I had my F24 master cylinders sleeved and bored a few years ago by a fellow in CA. If needed I could look up the name. Was very good job.Roger StarrNC77630
From: "Thomas Rood tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]"
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake http://karpspb.com/thankyou.htm Masters
Steve,This Amazon.com: Dorman TM3613 Brake Master Cylinder Repair Kit: Automotive is what I installed, and it was identical to the parts removed (literally, as in same past numbers molded into the soft parts and dimensionally identical piston), so it is what was previously installed. Also available at the following locations:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dhb-tm3613
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-TM3613-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-/201219471560
Also available at a lot of other places, I am sure - like O'reilly, Advance, Pep boys, Autozone....
Also, if NAPA is your first choice, then this looks like the right kit from them: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Master-Cylinder-Kit/_/R-UBP1_0230672735
FWIW, this kit is effective for (among about 1000 other vehicles) a 1957 Dodge W100 pickup master cylinder. Now if I could just figure out what the actual PT26 cylinder was also installed on, I would be on the right track. Seems like it must have been a tractor part or something, right?
Somebody on here must have had a master cylinder sleeved at some point in time, right?
Peace,Tom Rood.
From: "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters
Do you remember what NAPA kit it was? I’ll need to go through the brakes on my PT-23 before I fly it. May go with the DOT 5 also though I hear it can have a problem with moisture?
Also to post pix, I think they have to go on the group site in a folder. Nothing comes through on the e-mails. I’d love to see them.
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:39 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] PT-26 Brake Masters Here 2 photos that may help in what I was saying. Once you get the tire bead beyond 1/2 way point across the wheel, you are home free. Bolting the wheel down will help retard the use of 4 letter expletives. The spring compressor is about as cheap as it gets. I bought them at Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh brand. The first photo shows them as I purchases them, and the second shows how I re-configured them. I put both single hooks onto one threaded rod. Sorry for the crappy photo quality. That is my left wing, freshly numbered. I screwed up the first color coat and had to sand it down to smooth. I didn't lock down the air pressure regulator and accidentally bumped it up to 50 psi. Bad orange peel.I have it good with the "24". I can go down to NAPA and get a rebuilt kit for my master cylinder. The rubber pieces work great, but some of the metal pieces don't. I changed over to the DOT 5 fluid. I am really annoyed about the paint removing ability of the DOT 3 fluid. The only problem that I have encountered is that one of the fittings has a slight leak. I think it is the bleeder seat isn't what it needs to be. The bleeder is new. I don't know if I have a replacement for the block that ties the brake line, bleeder, and expander tube together. Bob
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:20 AM, "Kevin Trumpore ketrumpore@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:
T, Who ever you are, I don't know since you didn't put a name to your post.
Contact me, Kevin, or my dad, Larry at Southland Mfg. Co. (908) 459-5858 or ketrumpore@yahoo.com , lrtrumpore@gmail.com, about the engine mounts. If they are the Lord style mounts like many other Fairchilds, we should be able to help you. We re manufacture the Lord style engine mount bushings for many different aircraft.RegardsKevin
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:10 PM, tdrood@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
This is my second post and, as I mentioned in my first post, I am a newby, so try not to hate me! I am working on my father's PT-26 and found that both masters have some pitting at the low point in the cylinders (yeah, I know, shocking, right?), I honed them and got out most of the defects and installed new soft parts but I am afraid they are doing to leak - eventually if not right away. I am 500 miles away from the airplane and do not have TO's or part list or any other documentation that is accessible to me until I go back up to where the plane is and I would like to have everything I need BEFORE going back so I can actually accomplish some work when I do get there. So, now you know why I am asking the questions that I am about to ask....
First and foremost: are the seals/cups in these things REALLY compatible with both 5606 and DOT 3/4 (glycol based) brake fluid? I keep seeing posts indicating that either will work but I find it hard to believe that these old car brake parts will work with 5606. My father inadvertently added 5606 to the reservoir (and pumped it through the system - and yes, he does know better, he just had a brain fart) a couple of years ago and now I am cleaning it up. The seals in the masters has swelled to at least 25% larger than original size (they are definitely the same part number as the replacement seals and the new ones are correct size but the removed ones are a LOT larger and softer). What's weird is that I seem to remember from A&P school that DOT 3/4 brake fluid would swell seals in mineral oils system seals but that 5606 would melt/dissolve DOT seals - but that was a long time ago and I am probably confabulating. Any comments on the compatibility would be appreciated.
In any event, I have thoroughly flushed the reservoir and the rest of the system, removed the expanders (no small task because they were locked on the drums due to rust accumulation between the backing plates (or whatever the plates to which the expanders are mounted are called - not the dust shield), ordered new brake assemblies (NOS) and plan to reassemble with DOT 5. The existing expander tubes seem to be fine, no leaks, curs/tears and they expand under shop air pressure but A) the replacements are cheap and come with newe backing plates/pucks/etc and since I am going to DOT 5, it seems prudent to just change them. Im=n any event, I plan to disassemble the new brakes when I get them (unless someone has a compelling reason not to) and have them powder coated. Will the additional thickness of the powder coat cause me fit-up headaches when I go to install the brakes?
Back to the masters, does anyone on here have a good part number for these things? One of them has a Hayes ID tag on it with the p/n 1E1831 (a bit worn and hard to read but that's what it looks like) and it is definitely 1.25-in bore - actually the two masters are slightly different from one another and the other one has no datap late but both are 1.25-in. I have done extensive googling on that number (1E1831) and get zero hits. Interestingly, the tag also states to "use mineral oil only...do not use hydraulic brake fluid." Not sure how these things came from the factory, but the seals that were in them when I disassembled them were DEFINITELY DOT 3/4 type seals (the removed seals had same part numbers as the repair kit TM3613). Seems odd to me - can anyone explain why the tag indicates mineral oil based (if the answer is that mineral oil is what is supposed to be in there, then let me have it for being a dunmb@ss)... Regardless, does anyone have a good part number for the original style (three mounting bolt hole flange, under floor style) master cylinders for PT-26? Better, does anyone have a serviceable set, know where I can get some or know where I could have them sleeved/rebuilt?
Am I pissing up a rope and should I just bite the bullet and convert to modern (C-310??) brakes?
One more thing - the rubber inserts in the engine mounts on this thing look like they were cut out of a polyester ply tire - with a pocket knife - is that normal? It damn-sure ain't on the Boeings and Airbuses that I design repairs for....
Thank you for indulging me and feel free to give me sht for being a PITA!
T
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