Re: help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

shergei2001 · Post by **shergei2001** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:06 pm

'I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3, and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26 elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:23 pm

'The only thing I can think of right now is either clamp the bar down to the
table so it doesn't move and "work" the rivet or use some soft annealed "Ice
box" rivets that will harden after installation?

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of shergei2001
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:06 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble
riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3,
and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at
making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26
elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other
photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib
gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help
would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Hugh Loewenhardt · Post by **Hugh Loewenhardt** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:47 pm

'How about installing the rivets inverted (head on the inside), bucking the head against a dimpled steel plate and heading the tail of the rivet on the outside of the workpiece with a ballpeen hammer.?

________________________________
From: Steve Link
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

The only thing I can think of right now is either clamp the bar down to the
table so it doesn't move and "work" the rivet or use some soft annealed "Ice
box" rivets that will harden after installation?

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of shergei2001
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:06 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble
riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3,
and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at
making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26
elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other
photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib
gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help
would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Hugh Loewenhardt · Post by **Hugh Loewenhardt** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:01 pm

'Shergei, How about inverting the rivets (heads on the inside), bucking the heads against a dimpled steel plate and heading the the rivet tails on the outside of the workpiece with a ballpeen hammer. Get some trailing edge material and make a trial run to ensure it works to your satisfaction.

________________________________
From: shergei2001
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 6:05 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3, and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26 elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Geoff Guest · Post by **Geoff Guest** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:56 am

'Pete;
Installation looks very similar to 1936 Fairchild 24C8E wing and aileron trailing edges where the factory utilized one long rivet to capture both sides through the rib. The wing ribs being spruce of course and the ailerons of aluminum such as your pictures indicate. If the holes don't align for one rivet then this of course would not be applicable to your install. Difficult to tell from the first picture with the rule whether the rivet holes align. I'll take some digitals today and send them on just in case. Good luck. Geoff Guest

----- Original Message -----
From: shergei2001
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3, and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26 elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford

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Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:54 am

'Pete: You need a squeezer with a yoke like this for working areas with
little space:

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=ATSRS-N1SDY

It doesn't have to be a powered one, just having a toenail style tip is
what you need.

Craig C.'

JERRY H · Post by **JERRY H** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:51 pm

'I WOULD SUGGEST USING AIRCRAFT CHERRY RIVETS.JUST APPLY FROM THE OUTSIDE AND SQUEEZE UNTIL THEY POP LIKE A POP RIVETER.NO BUCKING REQUIRED.>>JUST A THOUGHT.>>JERRY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Pete Crawford · Post by **Pete Crawford** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:19 pm

'Geoff,
In this installation the rib uses two rivets at the trailing edge, one on top and one on bottom. They do not line up, so one rivet could not be used. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll figure this out some way!
Pete Crawford

----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Guest
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

Pete;
Installation looks very similar to 1936 Fairchild 24C8E wing and aileron trailing edges where the factory utilized one long rivet to capture both sides through the rib. The wing ribs being spruce of course and the ailerons of aluminum such as your pictures indicate. If the holes don't align for one rivet then this of course would not be applicable to your install. Difficult to tell from the first picture with the rule whether the rivet holes align. I'll take some digitals today and send them on just in case. Good luck. Geoff Guest

----- Original Message -----
From: shergei2001
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3, and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26 elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.914 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3943 - Release Date: 10/06/11 23:34:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Pete Crawford · Post by **Pete Crawford** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:19 pm

'Steve,
The elevator drawing specifies AN456-AD3-3 rivets, which are equivalent to today's AN470 universal rivet. A softer(?) icebox rivet would certainly drive easier, which is something to consider.
Thanks!
Pete Crawford

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Link
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

The only thing I can think of right now is either clamp the bar down to the
table so it doesn't move and "work" the rivet or use some soft annealed "Ice
box" rivets that will harden after installation?

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of shergei2001
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:06 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble
riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3,
and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at
making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26
elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other
photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib
gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help
would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Pete Crawford · Post by **Pete Crawford** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:19 pm

'Hugh,
That is something I had not thought of! You could drive the tail with a rivet gun as well. I do want to keep the installation as original as possible, but that is a good idea.
Thanks,
Pete Crawford

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Loewenhardt
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

Shergei, How about inverting the rivets (heads on the inside), bucking the heads against a dimpled steel plate and heading the the rivet tails on the outside of the workpiece with a ballpeen hammer. Get some trailing edge material and make a trial run to ensure it works to your satisfaction.

________________________________
From: shergei2001
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 6:05 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] help with riveting PT-26 elevator trailing edge

I had to remove some elevator ribs on my PT-26 project and am having trouble riveting the ribs back on the trailing edges. The rivets are AN470-AD3-3, and there is no room for a bucking bar or squeezer. I tried two attempts at making a backing bar, but both were too flexible. One is shown in the "PT-26 elevator trailing edge riveting" photo album located here, along with other photos and dimensions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fairchildclub/photos/album/751573116/pic/list
Even more difficult will be riveting on the trailing edge/trim-tab rib gussets to the trailing edge, but there has to be a way to do this! Any help would be greating appreciated. Thanks, Pete Crawford

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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