Re: MPRS accident

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:56 pm

'Not sure if the video was taken from a KC-135 MPRS but it's pretty cool.
The receiver hit the basket too hard and the hose response system could not
compensate. Notice the sine wave that breaks the hose....This is an all too
common incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA

Also the T-birds refuel....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk&feature=related'

OldOOwl@aol.com · Post by **OldOOwl@aol.com** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:57 pm

'And we, the taxpayers, have to pay for this stupidity.

In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:56:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
steven_link@msn.com writes:

Not sure if the video was taken from a KC-135 MPRS but it's pretty cool.
The receiver hit the basket too hard and the hose response system could not
compensate. Notice the sine wave that breaks the hose....This is an all too
common incident.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA)

Also the T-birds refuel....
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk&feature=related_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk&feature=related)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Gene Haines · Post by **Gene Haines** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:47 pm

'Have you ever refueled in flight? I bet not. It is one of the hardest things military pilots do. Hose is much harder than boom refueling.

-----Original Message-----
From: OldOOwl@aol.com
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Apr 29, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

And we, the taxpayers, have to pay for this stupidity.

In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:56:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
steven_link@msn.com writes:

Not sure if the video was taken from a KC-135 MPRS but it's pretty cool.
The receiver hit the basket too hard and the hose response system could not
compensate. Notice the sine wave that breaks the hose....This is an all too
common incident.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA)

Also the T-birds refuel....
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk&feature=related_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk&feature=related)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

F.J. & D.A. Cox · Post by **F.J. & D.A. Cox** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:34 am

'Having done this for most of my operational life day and night at all levels between 1000' and 35,000'( that is a few years ago!!) this is fairly classic of a guy doing it for the first time - remember - pilots have spent all their time avoiding mid air's and now they have to engineer one.

On his first attempt note he misses because the nose goes down - trying to push the probe in with the stick rather than the throttle. The second approach looked OK, but not perfect, and in my opinion he did not hit the basket too fast - It loooks to me like the pod did not 'take up the slack' correctly and the classic 'crank shaft' effect started. Note that the hose did a little sharp 'withdrawl' just before his approach which would suggest that the pod had a malfunction. Experienced receiver pilots would notice this hose behaviour very quickly and move out to one side to create a bow in the hose before any damage was done which immediately stops the 'crank shafting' and allows fuel to pass providing sufficient hose has been retracted into the pod to switch it to the 'Pass fuel mode'

In this instance I would not put any blame on the pilot - we've all 'been there done that' - the military has and requires, a steep learning curve!

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Haines
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

Have you ever refueled in flight? I bet not. It is one of the hardest things military pilots do. Hose is much harder than boom refueling.

-----Original Message-----
From: OldOOwl@aol.com
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Apr 29, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

And we, the taxpayers, have to pay for this stupidity.

In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:56:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
steven_link@msn.com writes:

Not sure if the video was taken from a KC-135 MPRS but it's pretty cool.
The receiver hit the basket too hard and the hose response system could not
compensate. Notice the sine wave that breaks the hose....This is an all too
common incident.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA)

Also the T-birds refuel....
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk&feature=related_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk&feature=related)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:56 am

'VERY good description! My MPRS rep at work could not have said it better. Most people don’t notice the sharp take up on approach.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of F.J. & D.A. Cox
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:34 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

Having done this for most of my operational life day and night at all levels between 1000' and 35,000'( that is a few years ago!!) this is fairly classic of a guy doing it for the first time - remember - pilots have spent all their time avoiding mid air's and now they have to engineer one.

On his first attempt note he misses because the nose goes down - trying to push the probe in with the stick rather than the throttle. The second approach looked OK, but not perfect, and in my opinion he did not hit the basket too fast - It loooks to me like the pod did not 'take up the slack' correctly and the classic 'crank shaft' effect started. Note that the hose did a little sharp 'withdrawl' just before his approach which would suggest that the pod had a malfunction. Experienced receiver pilots would notice this hose behaviour very quickly and move out to one side to create a bow in the hose before any damage was done which immediately stops the 'crank shafting' and allows fuel to pass providing sufficient hose has been retracted into the pod to switch it to the 'Pass fuel mode'

In this instance I would not put any blame on the pilot - we've all 'been there done that' - the military has and requires, a steep learning curve!

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Haines
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

Have you ever refueled in flight? I bet not. It is one of the hardest things military pilots do. Hose is much harder than boom refueling.

-----Original Message-----
From: OldOOwl@aol.com
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Apr 29, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

And we, the taxpayers, have to pay for this stupidity.

In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:56:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
steven_link@msn.com writes:

Not sure if the video was taken from a KC-135 MPRS but it's pretty cool.
The receiver hit the basket too hard and the hose response system could not
compensate. Notice the sine wave that breaks the hose....This is an all too
common incident.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA)

Also the T-birds refuel....
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk &feature=related_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk &feature=related)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

F.J. & D.A. Cox · Post by **F.J. & D.A. Cox** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:24 am

'I might also suggest that the Tanker crew should have noticed the small 'inwards' movement, which is abnormal, and stopped the Fighter's approach rather than watch him frighten himself through no fault of his own!

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Link
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

VERY good description! My MPRS rep at work could not have said it better. Most people don’t notice the sharp take up on approach.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of F.J. & D.A. Cox
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:34 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

Having done this for most of my operational life day and night at all levels between 1000' and 35,000'( that is a few years ago!!) this is fairly classic of a guy doing it for the first time - remember - pilots have spent all their time avoiding mid air's and now they have to engineer one.

On his first attempt note he misses because the nose goes down - trying to push the probe in with the stick rather than the throttle. The second approach looked OK, but not perfect, and in my opinion he did not hit the basket too fast - It loooks to me like the pod did not 'take up the slack' correctly and the classic 'crank shaft' effect started. Note that the hose did a little sharp 'withdrawl' just before his approach which would suggest that the pod had a malfunction. Experienced receiver pilots would notice this hose behaviour very quickly and move out to one side to create a bow in the hose before any damage was done which immediately stops the 'crank shafting' and allows fuel to pass providing sufficient hose has been retracted into the pod to switch it to the 'Pass fuel mode'

In this instance I would not put any blame on the pilot - we've all 'been there done that' - the military has and requires, a steep learning curve!

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Haines
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

Have you ever refueled in flight? I bet not. It is one of the hardest things military pilots do. Hose is much harder than boom refueling.

-----Original Message-----
From: OldOOwl@aol.com
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Apr 29, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

And we, the taxpayers, have to pay for this stupidity.

In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:56:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
steven_link@msn.com writes:

Not sure if the video was taken from a KC-135 MPRS but it's pretty cool.
The receiver hit the basket too hard and the hose response system could not
compensate. Notice the sine wave that breaks the hose....This is an all too
common incident.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA)

Also the T-birds refuel....
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk &feature=related_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk &feature=related)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Gene Haines · Post by **Gene Haines** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:26 pm

'I doubt the tanker crew could somehow stop the fighter. By the time they informed him or her, it would be too late. Unless the procedure has changed the fighter must push, or keep the hose a little loose since fuel does not flow while the hose is at full length. After hook up the fighter moves slowly closer while the hose retracts until the fuel can flow.
Maybe we will hear from a current fighter pilot that can explain this better.

The probe on the fighter I flew was, in my opinion, was too short. About three feet from hook up the airflow around the nose of the aircraft would move the basket out of alignment. So to get a hook up you had to approach with a little speed faster than the tanker and after hook up you had to slow to tanker speed. Not an easy maneuver. The hose could and sometimes did whip.

-----Original Message-----
From: F.J. & D.A. Cox
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 30, 2011 10:22 am
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

I might also suggest that the Tanker crew should have noticed the small 'inwards' movement, which is abnormal, and stopped the Fighter's approach rather than watch him frighten himself through no fault of his own!

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Link
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

VERY good description! My MPRS rep at work could not have said it better. Most people don’t notice the sharp take up on approach.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of F.J. & D.A. Cox
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:34 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

Having done this for most of my operational life day and night at all levels between 1000' and 35,000'( that is a few years ago!!) this is fairly classic of a guy doing it for the first time - remember - pilots have spent all their time avoiding mid air's and now they have to engineer one.

On his first attempt note he misses because the nose goes down - trying to push the probe in with the stick rather than the throttle. The second approach looked OK, but not perfect, and in my opinion he did not hit the basket too fast - It loooks to me like the pod did not 'take up the slack' correctly and the classic 'crank shaft' effect started. Note that the hose did a little sharp 'withdrawl' just before his approach which would suggest that the pod had a malfunction. Experienced receiver pilots would notice this hose behaviour very quickly and move out to one side to create a bow in the hose before any damage was done which immediately stops the 'crank shafting' and allows fuel to pass providing sufficient hose has been retracted into the pod to switch it to the 'Pass fuel mode'

In this instance I would not put any blame on the pilot - we've all 'been there done that' - the military has and requires, a steep learning curve!

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Haines
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com ;
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

Have you ever refueled in flight? I bet not. It is one of the hardest things military pilots do. Hose is much harder than boom refueling.

-----Original Message-----
From: OldOOwl@aol.com ;
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com ;
Sent: Fri, Apr 29, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] MPRS accident

And we, the taxpayers, have to pay for this stupidity.

In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:56:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
steven_link@msn.com ; writes:

Not sure if the video was taken from a KC-135 MPRS but it's pretty cool.
The receiver hit the basket too hard and the hose response system could not
compensate. Notice the sine wave that breaks the hose....This is an all too
common incident.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMNitOL0XcA)

Also the T-birds refuel....
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk &feature=related_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWoCkZyoslk &feature=related)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'