Re: Brake line question..

Tom Mueller · Post by **Tom Mueller** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:40 am

'While reassembling my brake lines after having both landing gear off
for maintenance, I had no trouble with the hose connection at the
fuselage, However I'm having trouble getting a good leak free
connection at the lower connection to the banjo fitting.
In one of my four manuals, one does mention a small flexible hose at
this lower fitting. The plane came to me without a hose there, just a
hard connection. Seems like it should have a flexible hose connection
there. However most the manuals show only a hard connection to the
banjo fitting. Anybody else have a hose hookup at this lower brake
line fitting. I'm thinking a flexible hose is in order. Thanks
Tom
Hanford, Ca.'

robert Etter · Post by **robert Etter** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:59 pm

'I am not sure if my brake system is built as the drawings. The master
cylinder is pretty much as in the drawings. I have the case iron model,
versus the D-87-3 shown in the owner manual. It does illustrate the case
iron upper right portion of the drawing #42281. The brake lines are the
same as what is mentioned in the text. Aluminum tube, with friction tape
wrapped around it at intervals to stop chaffing (it also make on hell of a
noise when it bangs the inside of the gear leg when landing on sod). The
fitting on the lower end of the brake lines that I took off, and replaced,
were typical automotive ends. Where mine differs is the lower end of the
brake line. I have a male end for flared tubing, same on both ends. The
drawing in the owners manual showed a A-57-6 Tube connection. Mine doesn't,
it is a rectangular block that the A-58-5 Tube Connection Bolt goes through,
and the end of the male flare tube end fitting goes directly into the end of
the rectangular block and mates with a female connection. The A-68-5 tube
connection gaskets that are mentioned, are soft copper washers. I found a
suitable replacement down at the NAPA store. It took quite a bit of torque
on the Tube Connection Bolt to stop it from leaking. A drop of brake fluid
on the threads helped.
And NO, I didn't have, and still don't have a flexible line at the bottom
end of the brake line. My line comes out the bottom of the landing gear leg
and makes pretty much of a 90 degree bend straight forward to the brake
assembly. I can take a picture if you want one.

Bob Etter
PO Box 974
Tonopah, NV 89049
775-482-6820
rletter@citlink.net'

Tom Mueller · Post by **Tom Mueller** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:20 am

'Thanks Bob, I mainly wanted to know if anyone else had a flex hose at
the lower fitting. Since you don't, I'm not worrying about either. I
was able to buy both brass block connectors from Napa (Banjo fitting),
the new one have a well defined flare seat inside, which the brake
line and inverted flare nut snug up to. The old one's where almost
flat from years of over torturing. That was my leak.
BTW, I picked up two NOS 10.5 X 4 smooth contour tires at an old
Aviation parts house going out of business....IS there anyway in Hell
they'll fit the Fairchild? I only paid $5.00 bucks apiece, so I'm not
out much if they won`t.
Tom
Hanford, Ca.'

harry hayman · Post by **harry hayman** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:45 pm

'Bob
Do you hsve a mfg and a part# for the banjo
fitting's,if so would you put yhem on the web.
Thanx,
Hatty Nc20619
--- Tom Mueller wrote:

> Thanks Bob, I mainly wanted to know if anyone else
> had a flex hose at
> the lower fitting. Since you don't, I'm not worrying
> about either. I
> was able to buy both brass block connectors from
> Napa (Banjo fitting),
> the new one have a well defined flare seat inside,
> which the brake
> line and inverted flare nut snug up to. The old
> one's where almost
> flat from years of over torturing. That was my leak.
>
> BTW, I picked up two NOS 10.5 X 4 smooth contour
> tires at an old
> Aviation parts house going out of business....IS
> there anyway in Hell
> they'll fit the Fairchild? I only paid $5.00 bucks
> apiece, so I'm not
> out much if they won`t.
> Tom
> Hanford, Ca.
>
>
>
>

Harry Hayman
Phone 904-284-4276
Fax 904-284-3869

____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com'

norbymac20@sbcglobal.net · Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:03 pm

'Tom There are flex lines on a 1939 F-24 that I am working on.
I have a question about the vacumn pump on a Ranger (1938) F-24.
Are these pumps dry or wet pumps? My gyros are not working and since there
is no suction guage, I plan to put a vacumn meter on the line from the pump,
the next time I go to IKK,(Kankakee, IL). Lucky Mc Luckie

----- Original Message -----
From: "harry hayman"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: Brake line question..

> Bob
> Do you hsve a mfg and a part# for the banjo
> fitting's,if so would you put yhem on the web.
> Thanx,
> Hatty Nc20619
> --- Tom Mueller wrote:
>
>> Thanks Bob, I mainly wanted to know if anyone else
>> had a flex hose at
>> the lower fitting. Since you don't, I'm not worrying
>> about either. I
>> was able to buy both brass block connectors from
>> Napa (Banjo fitting),
>> the new one have a well defined flare seat inside,
>> which the brake
>> line and inverted flare nut snug up to. The old
>> one's where almost
>> flat from years of over torturing. That was my leak.
>>
>> BTW, I picked up two NOS 10.5 X 4 smooth contour
>> tires at an old
>> Aviation parts house going out of business....IS
>> there anyway in Hell
>> they'll fit the Fairchild? I only paid $5.00 bucks
>> apiece, so I'm not
>> out much if they won`t.
>> Tom
>> Hanford, Ca.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Harry Hayman
> Phone 904-284-4276
> Fax 904-284-3869
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Sports
> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
> http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

John Berendt · Post by **John Berendt** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:24 am

'Tom,

What is the part number on the banjo fittings that you got from NAPA

John Berendt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Mueller"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Brake line question..

> Thanks Bob, I mainly wanted to know if anyone else had a flex hose at
> the lower fitting. Since you don't, I'm not worrying about either. I
> was able to buy both brass block connectors from Napa (Banjo fitting),
> the new one have a well defined flare seat inside, which the brake
> line and inverted flare nut snug up to. The old one's where almost
> flat from years of over torturing. That was my leak.
> BTW, I picked up two NOS 10.5 X 4 smooth contour tires at an old
> Aviation parts house going out of business....IS there anyway in Hell
> they'll fit the Fairchild? I only paid $5.00 bucks apiece, so I'm not
> out much if they won`t.
> Tom
> Hanford, Ca.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

robert Etter · Post by **robert Etter** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:49 pm

'Boy!, I must have been out to lunch at sometime in the past, though my waist
line doesn't show it.

What is a Banjo fitting? Is that the male threaded end to a flared brake
line?

In addition to what I wrote yesterday. The drawing of the brake line on the
CD and the brake lines that I removed from the gear legs, several years ago,
really didn't match up completely. One looked like it may have been
original from the Temco plant and the other was a local replacement from the
1948 era. The one that I thought to be original, since that was all that I
had to go by, did have the friction tape wrapped around the tubing in
several places. It didn't have what the drawing showed as stand-offs
(rubber disks). After looking at the drawing, and looking at the gear leg,
I can't see how you would get everything together. If the long brake line
is already bent, and the rubber disks are in place, the hole at the bottom
of the gear leg seems to small for everything (the wraps of friction tape
plus the rubber disks) to fit through. With the tube already bent to
accommodate the connection to the expander tube assembly, you can't feed it
through the top opening in the gear leg. Since at the time it didn't know
differently, I did put the wraps of friction tape in place similar to the
line I removed. I don't remember the number of wraps, but it was as much as
I could, and still have it fit through the bottom hole. Then at the bottom
of the line, I put enough to make it snug in the hole.

I learned one thing by accident. I forget to install the brake line inside
the gear leg before you attach the gear leg to the airfame, not to worry.
With the oleo strut disconnected and expander tube assembly and backing
plate removed, you can raise the gear leg high enough to thread the brake
line up into the gear leg. It proved to be easy. The main gear bolts,
washers, nuts, and keys, all went into place much easier with the brake line
not in place. Bending the new brake line, with the gear leg on the bench,
was a pretty easy task.

Bob Etter
PO Box 974
Tonopah, NV 89049
775-482-6820
rletter@citlink.net'

ranger440c5 · Post by **ranger440c5** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:14 pm

'These are banjo fittings... for barbed hose but other ends available.
It's a sandwich fitting.
http://www.paragonperformance.com/Fitting%20photos2.html

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Etter"
wrote:

> Boy!, I must have been out to lunch at sometime in the past, though

my waist

> line doesn't show it.
>
> What is a Banjo fitting? Is that the male threaded end to a flared

brake

> line?
>
> In addition to what I wrote yesterday. The drawing of the brake

line on the

> CD and the brake lines that I removed from the gear legs, several

years ago,

> really didn't match up completely. One looked like it may have been
> original from the Temco plant and the other was a local replacement

from the

> 1948 era. The one that I thought to be original, since that was

all that I

> had to go by, did have the friction tape wrapped around the tubing

in

> several places. It didn't have what the drawing showed as stand-

offs

> (rubber disks). After looking at the drawing, and looking at the

gear leg,

> I can't see how you would get everything together. If the long

brake line

> is already bent, and the rubber disks are in place, the hole at the

bottom

> of the gear leg seems to small for everything (the wraps of

friction tape

> plus the rubber disks) to fit through. With the tube already bent to
> accommodate the connection to the expander tube assembly, you can't

feed it

> through the top opening in the gear leg. Since at the time it

didn't know

> differently, I did put the wraps of friction tape in place similar

to the

> line I removed. I don't remember the number of wraps, but it was

as much as

> I could, and still have it fit through the bottom hole. Then at

the bottom

> of the line, I put enough to make it snug in the hole.
>
> I learned one thing by accident. I forget to install the brake

line inside

> the gear leg before you attach the gear leg to the airfame, not to

worry.

> With the oleo strut disconnected and expander tube assembly and

backing

> plate removed, you can raise the gear leg high enough to thread the

brake

> line up into the gear leg. It proved to be easy. The main gear

bolts,

> washers, nuts, and keys, all went into place much easier with the

brake line

> not in place. Bending the new brake line, with the gear leg on the

bench,

> was a pretty easy task.
>
> Bob Etter
> PO Box 974
> Tonopah, NV 89049
> 775-482-6820
> rletter@c...

'

Tom Mueller · Post by **Tom Mueller** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:39 am

'John, here's what worked for me. My Temco Fairchild came to me with
the lower brake line fittings as pictured on page 34, (figure 28) of
the Airplane Parts Catalog for Army Models UC-61A and UC-61K,
(Revised: September 1944)
It's a little more simplified set up than the earlier models.... The
1/4 inch aluminum tubing makes a straight run down the inside of
the streamlined strut, exists a small hole at the bottom, makes a
nice easy 90 deg. turn, then connects to a brass connector block by
means of 7/16 inverted flare nut. The brass block is by
weatherhead; earlier 24's had a Hayes part there with some type of
elbow connection. Any who, through this block runs a tube connection
bolt (the bolt with the bleeder screw) that then attaches the whole
assembly to the tube nozzle connection.
The brass block is weatherhead... ...part # 7709 Brake fitting (1/4
inv. seat and 19/32 bolt hole)
The flare nut is also weatherhead... inverted 7/16 flare nut (No
sleeve)
I guess most NAPA stores have the Weatherhead Brass fittings catalog.
Also... you need two copper washers per side, (two slightly
different sizes) NAPA have them but found them to be a little too
thick; you had to tighten the crap out of them to stop the leak. I
then went to a very old auto parts store, they also had copper
washers, and they were half as thick. They sealed very nicely.
Also while replacing the brake lines in the streamlined struts, I
slid a 1/4 inch clear vinyl hose over the entire length. A little
graphite lube and it went right on. No rattles!
Tom'

robert Etter · Post by **robert Etter** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:42 pm

'It sounds like you were describing what my installation looks like. I did
learn that the fitting, is guess, is a Banjo block with an inverted flare
female connection on one end. I looked through the stuff that I have
gathered over the years, and I have a banjo collar with a male flare tube
input connection, a banjo collar with an inverted flare female connection,
another banjo collar with an inverted flare female connection that is to
small to fit anything and another Banjo block with an inverted flare female
connection on one end. The copper washer I used were also from NAPA. I
don't know if the number is the same. If I took the time, I could go back
to an E-mail that I send a long time back. I'm sure I mentioned it in
there. I think I put the NAPA P/N for the Master cylinder kit I used in
there as well. Even the dust boot fit perfectly.
Bob Etter
PO Box 974
Tonopah, NV 89049
775-482-6820
rletter@citlink.net'