Re: pre-war Warner powered Model 24s

tonyb42uk · Post by **tonyb42uk** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:07 pm

'May I request some help from the Warner experts and those members
familar with the Warner-powered F-24J, F-24W9 and F-24W40 models?

A British aviation historian based in Thailand has attempted to make
a positive identification of a Model 24 exhibited in the RTAF
Museum. This aircraft has previously been reported as an ex-RAF
Argus with serial no. FZ780, but this is almost certainly incorrect.

Last week during a thorough inspection, inside and out, the only
serial no. he found was that on the Warner Super Scarab 50A data
plate: '720EAM'.

Can this Warner serial no. be used date the engine and/or used to
narrow down the actual Model 24?

Where should the airframe data plate be on a pre-war civil Model
24? I am aware the RAF Argus had the Fairchild plate on the extreme
right hand side of the instrument panel, but had it have been in
such an obvious location he would have found it.

Eighteen F-24's were exported to Thailand:
3 F-24J's; c/nos. 3411 to 3413 exported to Siam, September 1938.
3 F-24J's; c/nos. 3414 to 3416 exported to Siam, November 1938.
F-24W9; c/n. W9-217 exported to Thailand, November 1939.
F-24W40; c/n. W40-104 exported to Thailand, March 1940.
5 F-24W40's; c/nos. W40-142 to W40-146, exported September 1940.
5 F-24W40's: c/nos. W40-153 to W40-157, exported October 1940.

Siamese Airways seem to have used 2 or 3 after W.W.2 but only W40-
154 is known to have received a registration: HS-SEA. Very little
further information seems to have survived about these Fairchild's.

Even a comparison of existing Warner serial nos. would be helpful.

Would appreciate any advice, Tony

C.A.Broadhurst
Grimsby, England'

n244ms@aol.com · Post by **n244ms@aol.com** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:42 pm

'Tony,

I have a F-24W40-148. The original Warner appears to be serial # SS774E.
The AM Suffix,s were added to show compliance with latter Service Letters.
I will look at the original log books when at the airport and see if there is
any other significant early entries.

Mike Still

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

tonyb42uk · Post by **tonyb42uk** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:29 pm

'Mike,
Many thanks - that is a very helpful start. It would suggest the
Thai Museum exhibit may have been built a little before yours.
Best wishes, Tony

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, n244ms@a... wrote:
> Tony,
>
> I have a F-24W40-148. The original Warner appears to be serial #
SS774E.
> The AM Suffix,s were added to show compliance with latter Service
Letters.
> I will look at the original log books when at the airport and see
if there is
> any other significant early entries.
>
> Mike Still
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

rangerrobertmn · Post by **rangerrobertmn** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:58 pm

'Tony,

Two of the UC-61s on the list are serial numbers 804 and 834. These
are typical serial numbers for a UC-61. I have not seen an 'alpha
prefix' on the number, but am not surprised. The 780 part of the
serial number may be correct.

Bob W.
rjWaldron@mmmpcc.org

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "tonyb42uk"

wrote:

> May I request some help from the Warner experts and those members
> familar with the Warner-powered F-24J, F-24W9 and F-24W40 models?
>
> A British aviation historian based in Thailand has attempted to

make

> a positive identification of a Model 24 exhibited in the RTAF
> Museum. This aircraft has previously been reported as an ex-RAF
> Argus with serial no. FZ780, but this is almost certainly

incorrect.

>
> Last week during a thorough inspection, inside and out, the only
> serial no. he found was that on the Warner Super Scarab 50A data
> plate: '720EAM'.
>
> Can this Warner serial no. be used date the engine and/or used to
> narrow down the actual Model 24?
>
> Where should the airframe data plate be on a pre-war civil Model
> 24? I am aware the RAF Argus had the Fairchild plate on the

extreme

> right hand side of the instrument panel, but had it have been in
> such an obvious location he would have found it.
>
> Eighteen F-24's were exported to Thailand:
> 3 F-24J's; c/nos. 3411 to 3413 exported to Siam, September 1938.
> 3 F-24J's; c/nos. 3414 to 3416 exported to Siam, November 1938.
> F-24W9; c/n. W9-217 exported to Thailand, November 1939.
> F-24W40; c/n. W40-104 exported to Thailand, March 1940.
> 5 F-24W40's; c/nos. W40-142 to W40-146, exported September 1940.
> 5 F-24W40's: c/nos. W40-153 to W40-157, exported October 1940.
>
> Siamese Airways seem to have used 2 or 3 after W.W.2 but only W40-
> 154 is known to have received a registration: HS-SEA. Very little
> further information seems to have survived about these Fairchild's.
>
> Even a comparison of existing Warner serial nos. would be helpful.
>
> Would appreciate any advice, Tony
>
> C.A.Broadhurst
> Grimsby, England

'

paul pinato · Post by **paul pinato** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:23 am

'Hello

My 1943 UC61A Warner 165 powered has seral number 804. In the loggbock it is identifyed as 804 -128214 and registred in Sweden as SE-AWS - 23 sep 1946. The army number is 314840. It served in the 9th army as a night trainer. It came to Sweden 1946 after been purchased as surplus in Frankfurt germany for 150 USD.
How come two airctafts with the same sn. number????
Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "rangerrobertmn"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 3:58 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: pre-war Warner powered Model 24s

> Tony,
>
> Two of the UC-61s on the list are serial numbers 804 and 834. These
> are typical serial numbers for a UC-61. I have not seen an 'alpha
> prefix' on the number, but am not surprised. The 780 part of the
> serial number may be correct.
>
> Bob W.
> rjWaldron@mmmpcc.org
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "tonyb42uk"

> wrote:
> > May I request some help from the Warner experts and those members
> > familar with the Warner-powered F-24J, F-24W9 and F-24W40 models?
> >
> > A British aviation historian based in Thailand has attempted to
> make
> > a positive identification of a Model 24 exhibited in the RTAF
> > Museum. This aircraft has previously been reported as an ex-RAF
> > Argus with serial no. FZ780, but this is almost certainly
> incorrect.
> >
> > Last week during a thorough inspection, inside and out, the only
> > serial no. he found was that on the Warner Super Scarab 50A data
> > plate: '720EAM'.
> >
> > Can this Warner serial no. be used date the engine and/or used to
> > narrow down the actual Model 24?
> >
> > Where should the airframe data plate be on a pre-war civil Model
> > 24? I am aware the RAF Argus had the Fairchild plate on the
> extreme
> > right hand side of the instrument panel, but had it have been in
> > such an obvious location he would have found it.
> >
> > Eighteen F-24's were exported to Thailand:
> > 3 F-24J's; c/nos. 3411 to 3413 exported to Siam, September 1938.
> > 3 F-24J's; c/nos. 3414 to 3416 exported to Siam, November 1938.
> > F-24W9; c/n. W9-217 exported to Thailand, November 1939.
> > F-24W40; c/n. W40-104 exported to Thailand, March 1940.
> > 5 F-24W40's; c/nos. W40-142 to W40-146, exported September 1940.
> > 5 F-24W40's: c/nos. W40-153 to W40-157, exported October 1940.
> >
> > Siamese Airways seem to have used 2 or 3 after W.W.2 but only W40-
> > 154 is known to have received a registration: HS-SEA. Very little
> > further information seems to have survived about these Fairchild's.
> >
> > Even a comparison of existing Warner serial nos. would be helpful.
> >
> > Would appreciate any advice, Tony
> >
> > C.A.Broadhurst
> > Grimsby, England
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

'

tonyb42uk · Post by **tonyb42uk** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:45 pm

'Paul,
Having just received Bob's list I can see the UC-61 with serial no.
804 he was referring to is yours.

C/no. 834 is listed with an owner in Denmark.

No two UC-61s should have the same serial no., though due to the odd
clerical error when the ex-RAF Argus where sold off, via a U.S.
Government agency, there are a few confused identities. The export
certificates often quoted the USAAF serial rather than the C/no.

Hopefully, the data plates will tell the real story.

The c/nos. for the various UC-61 variants run from 210 to 1186.

How is SE-AWS coming along?

All the best Tony

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "paul pinato"
wrote:

> Hello
>
> My 1943 UC61A Warner 165 powered has seral number 804. In the

loggbock it is identifyed as 804 -128214 and registred in Sweden as
SE-AWS - 23 sep 1946. The army number is 314840. It served in the
9th army as a night trainer. It came to Sweden 1946 after been
purchased as surplus in Frankfurt germany for 150 USD.

> How come two airctafts with the same sn. number????
> Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rangerrobertmn"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 3:58 AM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: pre-war Warner powered Model 24s
>
>
> > Tony,
> >
> > Two of the UC-61s on the list are serial numbers 804 and 834.

These

> > are typical serial numbers for a UC-61. I have not seen

an 'alpha

> > prefix' on the number, but am not surprised. The 780 part of

the

> > serial number may be correct.
> >
> > Bob W.
> > rjWaldron@m...
> >
>

'

tonyb42uk · Post by **tonyb42uk** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:16 am

'Many thanks to those who responded to my plea for advice in August
re: help to identify the Fairchild Model 24 in the Royal Thai Air
Force Museum. From your help with comparative Scarab engine serial
numbers we are fairly certain this aircraft was built too early to
be an ex-RAF or ex-USAAF Argus/Forwarder.

It now seems more likely the exhibit may be W40-154 HS-SEA but as
yet we are still uncertain as to whether it is a 24J, 24W-9 or W-
40. As far I can have been able to determine, without access to
suitable examples here in the UK to inspect, the differences between
these models are not obvious.

Were there, for instance, any changes made to the instrument panel
to accomodate new equipment during these years and does the J model
have the "hump", which I understand to have been introduced in 1939?

If anyone has photographs of original, or relatively un-modernised,
Model J, W-9 and W-40 panels or engine installations that I could
send to Thailand for comparison, I would be most grateful.

Many thanks again, Tony Broadhurst

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "tonyb42uk"

wrote: