Re: Expermintal Airworthiness certificate

Tom Downey · Post by **Tom Downey** » Mon Nov 19, 2001 8:24 pm

'In 1991 my Fairchild was placed in the EXP. category for the required
hours to certify the STC to place a Warner 165 on where a Warner 145
came off. No one bothered to apply for the certificate to be returned
to the normal category. The logs are signed off as engine changed as
per the STC which is now effective.

The question I have now, in light of pending regulations, (see AVWEB)
would it be better to leave the Fairchild in EXP cat. or try to get
the FAA to relicense it as normal cat?
opinions ??'

lov2fly28525@cs.com · Post by **lov2fly28525@cs.com** » Mon Nov 19, 2001 8:58 pm

'Tom,

Several 24s were upgraded from 145 to 165 with field approvals. Mine was
lucky enough to have a Fairchild factory upgrade, so its model was also
changed. I see no reason not to pursue a standard certificate. My opinion
is, the aircraft is worth more in standard catagory.

Al Rice
NC28525
F-24W-41A

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

jstreat360@aol.com · Post by **jstreat360@aol.com** » Mon Nov 19, 2001 9:27 pm

'Tom,

Get it back to normal. I would not even consider an Exp F-24 for resale.

Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA

Visit my Web Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/AIRCRAFTRESTORATIONREPAIRindex.html">Aircraft Restoration & Repair

Meet my Family
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/TreatFamilyHomePage.html">Treat Family Home Page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Tom Downey · Post by **Tom Downey** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:51 am

'--- In fairchildclub@y..., jstreat360@a... wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Get it back to normal. I would not even consider an Exp F-24 for

resale.

>
> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA

Other than resale I see no advantage to the normal cat. I am an A&P-
IA and can do my own annuals, Any A&P can do a Conformity inspection
on the EXP aircraft.
So what is the advantage of the normal cat. use of 337 to do any
changes? FSDO approval to change the fabric?
I belive it is a buyer perspective thing, and a whole lot more paper
to chase.
Tom D. A&P-IA
http://nc19143.homestead.com/NC19143.html.'

Christopher John Shaker · Tue Nov 20, 2001 1:21 am

'Might the experimental status also affect insurance?
Chris Shaker

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Downey
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:51 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Expermintal Airworthiness certificate

--- In fairchildclub@y..., jstreat360@a... wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Get it back to normal. I would not even consider an Exp F-24 for
resale.
>
> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA

Other than resale I see no advantage to the normal cat. I am an A&P-
IA and can do my own annuals, Any A&P can do a Conformity inspection
on the EXP aircraft.
So what is the advantage of the normal cat. use of 337 to do any
changes? FSDO approval to change the fabric?
I belive it is a buyer perspective thing, and a whole lot more paper
to chase.
Tom D. A&P-IA
http://nc19143.homestead.com/NC19143.html.

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'

Michael Denest · Post by **Michael Denest** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:01 am

'--- Tom Downey wrote:

> In 1991 my Fairchild was placed in the EXP. category
> for the required
> hours to certify the STC to place a Warner 165 on
> where a Warner 145
> came off. No one bothered to apply for the
> certificate to be returned
> to the normal category. The logs are signed off as
> engine changed as
> per the STC which is now effective.
>
> The question I have now, in light of pending
> regulations, (see AVWEB)
> would it be better to leave the Fairchild in EXP
> cat. or try to get
> the FAA to relicense it as normal cat?
> opinions ??

Tom,
Seek the assistance of an FAA Designated Airworthiness
Representative (DAR). Call your local FSDO for a list
of inspectors in your area. He will help you prepare
a request for an airworthiness certificate and do a
conformity inspection on your airplane. That would
consist of a logbook review and an inspection of the
aircraft.

HTH,

Mike

__________________________________________________
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Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:18 am

'Uh, would that be condition inspection vs conformity inspection? I
always thought a conformity inspection was to insure the plane was
equipped/built as per the type certificate +/- STC/Field approvals/ETC.
To bring back the Experimental F24 to Standard, it would have to be
exactly as it came off the production line with the exceptions of
approved mods wouldn't it? I'd be interested in an Experimental F24
just for the fact that I can fix or build any part for it, install it,
put it back in phase 1 (I think), test fly for set period, sign off mod,
all as an owner. Believe all I'd need was an A&P to sign off the annual
condition inspection once a year.

Scott

Tom Downey wrote:

>
> --- In fairchildclub@y..., jstreat360@a... wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Get it back to normal. I would not even consider an Exp F-24 for
> resale.
> >
> > Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
>
> Other than resale I see no advantage to the normal cat. I am an A&P-
> IA and can do my own annuals, Any A&P can do a Conformity inspection
> on the EXP aircraft.
> So what is the advantage of the normal cat. use of 337 to do any
> changes? FSDO approval to change the fabric?
> I belive it is a buyer perspective thing, and a whole lot more paper
> to chase.
> Tom D. A&P-IA
> http://nc19143.homestead.com/NC19143.html.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!'

Michael Denest · Post by **Michael Denest** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:33 am

'--- Scott wrote:

> Uh, would that be condition inspection vs conformity
> inspection? I
> always thought a conformity inspection was to insure
> the plane was
> equipped/built as per the type certificate +/-
> STC/Field approvals/ETC.
> To bring back the Experimental F24 to Standard, it
> would have to be
> exactly as it came off the production line with the
> exceptions of
> approved mods wouldn't it? I'd be interested in an
> Experimental F24
> just for the fact that I can fix or build any part
> for it, install it,
> put it back in phase 1 (I think), test fly for set
> period, sign off mod,
> all as an owner. Believe all I'd need was an A&P to
> sign off the annual
> condition inspection once a year.
>
> Scott

Scott,
To change a normal category aircraft to experimental
you must have the justification to do so (i.e. Warner
165 installation). You would need to do engineering
for your mod, prepare a test program, document your
test data, fly x amount of hours, hire a DER, etc.
How many dollars do you have to do this? I'm not
trying to be sarcastic but why go through all this
crap just to get out of an annual inspection each
year? What would an experimental category
certification do that a FAA Form 337 Major Alteration
can't do? Think about it before you put yourself
through a bunch of aggravation. If you really want to
do that, design or purchase a set of plans for a
homebuilt. As the builder, you can recieve a
Repairman Certificate from FAA and you can do whatever
you want as long as the change is airworthy.

HTH,

Mike

__________________________________________________
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Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:52 am

'Hi Mike,
Actually I was responding to someone who has an Experimental F24 and
wants to return it to standard category. Being that it is already
experimental, I was just saying that I personally would be interested in
an experimental F24. I would never go through making a certified
anything into an experimental something. I am building an RV-4 and own
a Corben at present. I don't have an experimental just to get out of
annual inspections...I have to have a condition inspection every 12
months like everyone else. I like the latitude to be able to add or
subtract parts

The only thing I don't like about 337's is the cost
of the IA filling out the paperwork and the FAA having to approve it.
Experimentals bypass these two stages of bureaucracy. I didn't take
your post as sarcastic at all. Good healthy conversation cleanses the
soul

Michael Denest wrote:

>
> --- Scott wrote:
> > Uh, would that be condition inspection vs conformity
> > inspection? I
> > always thought a conformity inspection was to insure
> > the plane was
> > equipped/built as per the type certificate +/-
> > STC/Field approvals/ETC.
> > To bring back the Experimental F24 to Standard, it
> > would have to be
> > exactly as it came off the production line with the
> > exceptions of
> > approved mods wouldn't it? I'd be interested in an
> > Experimental F24
> > just for the fact that I can fix or build any part
> > for it, install it,
> > put it back in phase 1 (I think), test fly for set
> > period, sign off mod,
> > all as an owner. Believe all I'd need was an A&P to
> > sign off the annual
> > condition inspection once a year.
> >
> > Scott
>
> Scott,
> To change a normal category aircraft to experimental
> you must have the justification to do so (i.e. Warner
> 165 installation). You would need to do engineering
> for your mod, prepare a test program, document your
> test data, fly x amount of hours, hire a DER, etc.
> How many dollars do you have to do this? I'm not
> trying to be sarcastic but why go through all this
> crap just to get out of an annual inspection each
> year? What would an experimental category
> certification do that a FAA Form 337 Major Alteration
> can't do? Think about it before you put yourself
> through a bunch of aggravation. If you really want to
> do that, design or purchase a set of plans for a
> homebuilt. As the builder, you can recieve a
> Repairman Certificate from FAA and you can do whatever
> you want as long as the change is airworthy.
>
> HTH,
>
> Mike
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!'

Michael Denest · Post by **Michael Denest** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 8:40 am

'--- Scott wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> Actually I was responding to someone who has an
> Experimental F24 and
> wants to return it to standard category. Being that
> it is already
> experimental, I was just saying that I personally
> would be interested in
> an experimental F24. I would never go through
> making a certified
> anything into an experimental something. I am
> building an RV-4 and own
> a Corben at present. I don't have an experimental
> just to get out of
> annual inspections...I have to have a condition
> inspection every 12
> months like everyone else. I like the latitude to
> be able to add or
> subtract parts The only thing I don't like about
> 337's is the cost
> of the IA filling out the paperwork and the FAA
> having to approve it.
> Experimentals bypass these two stages of
> bureaucracy. I didn't take
> your post as sarcastic at all. Good healthy
> conversation cleanses the
> soul

Hey! Not a problem! I've had that situation where
someone wanted to put a C-172 into the experimental
category just so he could get it into the air quicker.
I explained to him just how much bull he had to go
through and then there was no guarantee that FAA would
bless it. He saw the error of his ways and went
through the process of obtaining a normal category
airworthiness certificate. Happy flying and have a
good holiday.

Mike

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