Re: SV: [fairchildclub] Re: Brakes

robert hensarling · Post by **robert hensarling** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 12:26 pm

'

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brakes

Jamie!!!!!!!!!! I'll get the paperwork to you on the Jasco, it got put on
the back burner, but I just pulled it off )
Robert

> Bob,
>
> Send me a copy of that Jasco PT install for the CD and Club records.
>
> Jamie.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

'

Michael Denest · Post by **Michael Denest** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm

'Ocassionally the system will push small amounts of
trapped air back to the reservoir creating a low head
pressure on the system. This is especially noticeable
on days with high temperatures. To relieve this
pressure, got to the air pressure valve on the
reservoir and push it in to relieve the pressure. If
this does not work, go to the brake bleeder and crack
it open, allowing a little bit of fluid to drain. The
problem should go away.
Now here is the easy way of bleeding PT brakes. If
the system is empty, service from the bleeder up to
the reservoir. You want to push as much air as
possible into the tank. Don't worry if you don't get
it all. Fill the tank from both sides of the system
until full. Now put some head pressure on the tank,
2# to 5# is ample. Bleed the normal way. The head
pressure alone should be enough to push all air out of
the master cylinder and expander tube. Once this is
done, relieve the air in the tank and the brakes
should be ok. What causes problems? Dirty fluid,
weak seals in the master cylinder, worn out expander
tube and leaking lines are things to look for.
Always, always, always use clean DOT 5 fluid. How do
you know the master cylinder has an internal leak?
The pedal will go to the stop, you bleed as described
above, you get good pedal and after a few minutes, the
pedal drops to the stop again. Replace the seals and
bleed the system. Always, always, always use clean
DOT 5 fluid. Did I say that already??

Mike

--- Robert Lloyd wrote:

> Our PT-26 is back in the air. It took forever to
> get the field
> approval for our Jasco alternator installation, but
> we finally have it.
> We also put on a stainless steel exhaust system from
> Aircraft
> Exhaust Systems of Jumping Branch, West Virginia.
> Thanks
> Jamie and everyone else who gave us advice while we
> were going
> through all of this.
> Now we have a new problem. After a short and
> uneventful
> test flight I turned to go into the hangar and the
> left brake locked. It
> would not budge. When we chocked the other wheel
> and moved
> the tail, the left wheel just skidded. The wheel
> didn't seem to be
> unusually hot. The next morning the wheel was free
> and the brake
> operated normally. The brakes are the original
> expander-tube
> brakes. We had some problems with the left brake
> dragging in the
> past, but we flushed the system and sanded the pucks
> and that
> seemed to take care of it. The wheel bearings have
> been
> inspected and repacked within the last year.
> Does anybody have any ideas?
> Bob
> Lloyd
>

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WALTER ALBERT · Post by **WALTER ALBERT** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:57 pm

'Did you use DOT5 for fluid???walt

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Brakes

> Bob,
>
> Make sure they are clean and dry. If paint was used in the brake plate
assemble make sure is not breaking down and turning to gew. Also make sure
the spring clips are installed correctly and they are in good condition.
Should be of a consistant spring/arch. Make sure you have sufficient
clearance between the pads and drum.
>
> Maybe Mike or Joe Denest can ad to this.
>
> Jamie
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

'

Bob & Ileen Waldron · Post by **Bob & Ileen Waldron** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:08 pm

'Bob,
I strongly suspect a problem with the master cylinder. If I recall
correctly, there is a small hole at the top of the cylinder, that is to
allow fluid to transfer when the pedal pressure is released. If this hole
is blocked with dirt (or the wrong sized piston) pressure will build in the
brake line, and lock the brake.

Be VERY careful about removing brake pad material. In order for the brakes
to perform well, there needs to be a VERY small clearance all around the
drum. Find people that work on old cars. In the thirties, many cars
required the brake shoes be turned to precisely fit the drums (mostly
mechanical brakes). Many times, old-car people will have a tool for turning
the shoes. One is called a 'Brake Doctor' and clamps onto your axel and
contains a small electric sanding disc (that can be moved a thousandth of an
inch at a time) that rotates around the axel and 'shaves' a little off the
brake pads. It leaves the pads perfectly round and can be controlled to the
thousandth of an inch.

Good luck. Expander tube brakes are very effective, but the must be set up
correctly.

Bob Waldron
1939 F24-K (with expander tube brakes)
rjwaldron@mmmpcc.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Lloyd"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:42 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Brakes

> Our PT-26 is back in the air. It took forever to get the field
> approval for our Jasco alternator installation, but we finally have it.
> We also put on a stainless steel exhaust system from Aircraft
> Exhaust Systems of Jumping Branch, West Virginia. Thanks
> Jamie and everyone else who gave us advice while we were going
> through all of this.
> Now we have a new problem. After a short and uneventful
> test flight I turned to go into the hangar and the left brake locked. It
> would not budge. When we chocked the other wheel and moved
> the tail, the left wheel just skidded. The wheel didn't seem to be
> unusually hot. The next morning the wheel was free and the brake
> operated normally. The brakes are the original expander-tube
> brakes. We had some problems with the left brake dragging in the
> past, but we flushed the system and sanded the pucks and that
> seemed to take care of it. The wheel bearings have been
> inspected and repacked within the last year.
> Does anybody have any ideas?
> Bob Lloyd
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

'

Bob and Dot Haas · Post by **Bob and Dot Haas** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 7:33 am

'Hey Robert! I had a similar problem with my 19, but after cleaning the
brake blocks with copious amounts of
Aerosol brake cleaner and good application of Emory cloth the brakes have
seemed to perform as required. I have
An exhaust system fabricated by the people at Jumping Branch, I'm here to
tell you their work is first class, first time.
Bob Haas Buckingham Army Airfield, Ft. Myers FL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Lloyd [mailto:lloyd@libra.law.utk.edu]
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 10:43 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Brakes

Our PT-26 is back in the air. It took forever to get the field
approval for our Jasco alternator installation, but we finally have it.
We also put on a stainless steel exhaust system from Aircraft
Exhaust Systems of Jumping Branch, West Virginia. Thanks
Jamie and everyone else who gave us advice while we were going
through all of this.
Now we have a new problem. After a short and uneventful
test flight I turned to go into the hangar and the left brake locked. It
would not budge. When we chocked the other wheel and moved
the tail, the left wheel just skidded. The wheel didn't seem to be
unusually hot. The next morning the wheel was free and the brake
operated normally. The brakes are the original expander-tube
brakes. We had some problems with the left brake dragging in the
past, but we flushed the system and sanded the pucks and that
seemed to take care of it. The wheel bearings have been
inspected and repacked within the last year.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Bob Lloyd

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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JFaas@aol.com · Post by **JFaas@aol.com** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 11:59 am

'I currently have a F-24 with mech. brakes and want to convert them to Cleveland. However, I am told of two conversions, 310 and a Widgon. Does anyone have a suggestion as to which I should consider.

Thank you
Jack'

jstreat360@aol.com · Post by **jstreat360@aol.com** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 6:41 pm

'Jack,

All the paperwork we have on hand is for the 310 conv. Three puck system,
eliminate the center pad, too much brake. You can also use the Cessna
Ag-Truck brakes, Two puck system, but we have no FAA 337 for it as of yet. I
will attach a 337 for your use.

Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA

Visit my F-24 Web Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/AIRCRAFTRESTORATIONREPAIRindex.html">Aircraft Restoration & Repair

Visit my Light Aircraft Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/jstreat360/myhomepage/business.html">Aircraft Restoration & Repair

Meet my Family:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/TreatFamilyHomePage.html">Treat Family Home Page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

David Stout · Post by **David Stout** » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:07 am

'I have a PT-23 and I am working on a PT-26. The PT-26 has the brakes locked up. Since I know of no source for parts , I am looking for information to replace the old Hayes wheels and brakes. I have heard of using the Cleveland kit for the Cessna 310. Is there a copy of a 337 or STC for this conversion. Has anybody used redline brakes?

I would appreciate it if someone would steer me in the right direction. Also any idea how I can deflate the expander tube enough to get the wheel off the airplane? The shoes are locked against the drum.

Thank you for any help .

Dave'

tomatotruck993 · Post by **tomatotruck993** » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:24 am

'I just went thru this on a customer's PT-23. It's not as bad as you think. Yes there is someone out there buying up every ounce of Hayes wheel and brake parts. Soon we'll probably see a new dealer's sign selling Hayes parts for a lot more than we used to pay. My customer did manage to find a new old stock expander tube, set of shoes and a drum. Got him back on the road. Part of the problem is the owner's choice of brake fluid. Switching back and forth from petroleum base and auto type 3/4 or silicon 5 doesn't help the expander tube at all. If there has been a lot of fluid choices made in your brake's past then do your own research and choose the best for your needs and then flush the entire system with the correct chemicals and methods. Replace all rubber parts expose to assorted fluids.
As for removal I simply choose a heavy 4x4 or 6x6 and ram the wheel off the drum.
For the 310 style brakes and wheels there are a few folks out there using them and the recent rewrite on Part 23, improvements to aging aircraft, you should not have a hard time peddling a Field Approval thru a FSDO.
Red lines are ok. A wee bit of overkill sometimes but they work fine. I've only installed them on T-6's and Stearmans. '

Curt Kinchen · Post by **Curt Kinchen** » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:19 pm

'I've used DOT 3 and 5 with success, including switching from 3 to 5 with a complete flushing of the system. Avoid 5606 as that is what swells the bladders.
Likewise, I was able to remove a wheel from a stuck brake with a swollen bladder due to the use of 5606 with the appropriate "persuader" tool. Replaced the bladders, flushed the system and used DOT 5 and all was well. I can't recall if we replaced the shoes too.

On Oct 7, 2017 10:24 AM, "wsknettl@centurytel.net [fairchildclub]" wrote:

I just went thru this on a customer's PT-23. It's not as bad as you think. Yes there is someone out there buying up every ounce of Hayes wheel and brake parts. Soon we'll probably see a new dealer's sign selling Hayes parts for a lot more than we used to pay. My customer did manage to find a new old stock expander tube, set of shoes and a drum. Got him back on the road. Part of the problem is the owner's choice of brake fluid. Switching back and forth from petroleum base and auto type 3/4 or silicon 5 doesn't help the expander tube at all. If there has been a lot of fluid choices made in your brake's past then do your own research and choose the best for your needs and then flush the entire system with the correct chemicals and methods. Replace all rubber parts expose to assorted fluids.
As for removal I simply choose a heavy 4x4 or 6x6 and ram the wheel off the drum.
For the 310 style brakes and wheels there are a few folks out there using them and the recent rewrite on Part 23, improvements to aging aircraft, you should not have a hard time peddling a Field Approval thru a FSDO.
Red lines are ok. A wee bit of overkill sometimes but they work fine. I've only installed them on T-6's and Stearmans.

'