Re: Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Paul Ford · Post by **Paul Ford** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:17 am

'Many thanks Bob, we'll try to track him down.

Best wishes,
Paul

________________________________
From: Bob Webster
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 11 May, 2011 21:16:28
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

John Ferrero (J&C Aircraft Engines) converted one for a Bristol Fighter (I think
it was) replica. John is working his way out of the business - getting old like
me - but he knows how to upright a Ranger.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: jameslbryan@btopenworld.com
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hi Paul
I am sure some one will know how to make a ranger engine run the wrong way up!!
I am sure some one used to run a Ranger in a dragster ?
G-RGUS will be over on Saturday for you to have a play with.
Good luck in your quest
James

________________________________
From: Paul Ford
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 19:12:53
Subject: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hello

I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have not joined any

group before, so am a complete newbie.

I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica Fokker DRI
(G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.

I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a Ranger engine
in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker DVII. I am scratch
building it from plans.

I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge range of
expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can learn more to help in
my decision.

I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at mastering the
internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the ropes here!

Grateful thanks

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3630 - Release Date: 05/11/11

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'

Paul Ford · Post by **Paul Ford** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:19 am

'Thanks Neil.

________________________________
From: Neil Baughman
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 11 May, 2011 21:28:27
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Old Rhinebec Aerodrome has one in thier Albatross DVa.

--- On Wed, 5/11/11, Bob Webster wrote:

From: Bob Webster
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 4:16 PM

John Ferrero (J&C Aircraft Engines) converted one for a Bristol Fighter (I think
it was) replica. John is working his way out of the business - getting old like
me - but he knows how to upright a Ranger.

Bob

----- Original Message -----

From: jameslbryan@btopenworld.com

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hi Paul

I am sure some one will know how to make a ranger engine run the wrong way up!!

I am sure some one used to run a Ranger in a dragster ?

G-RGUS will be over on Saturday for you to have a play with.

Good luck in your quest

James

________________________________

From: Paul Ford

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 19:12:53

Subject: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hello

I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have not joined any

group before, so am a complete newbie.

I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica Fokker DRI

(G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.

I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a Ranger engine

in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker DVII. I am scratch

building it from plans.

I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge range of

expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can learn more to help in

my decision.

I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at mastering the

internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the ropes here!

Grateful thanks

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3630 - Release Date: 05/11/11

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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'

Paul Ford · Post by **Paul Ford** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:30 am

'Hi Bob

Thats fascinating, thanks, I'll explore that further.

Best wishes,
Paul

________________________________
From: Robert Etter
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 11 May, 2011 22:44:29
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

I did hear from a friend of mine, who lives if Kansas City Kansas, that during
the late 40's, Ranger motors were used in race cars. They were mounted upside
down, and the RPM's that they were turning would scare the crap out of any that
happened to be flying behind that motor at the time. I don't know who you could

contact, most all of my friends from that era have passed.
I knew, in the early 70's, there was a gentleman at StateLine airport, south
Kansas City, who was building a DVII and had intensions of putting an upside
down Ranger in it. I don't know what ever became of that project. I did see a
completed top wing and a fuselage. Name... I really don't remember a name.
Someone in EAA around K.C. may remember.
Bob

________________________________
From: Neil Baughman
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 1:28:27 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Old Rhinebec Aerodrome has one in thier Albatross DVa.

--- On Wed, 5/11/11, Bob Webster wrote:

From: Bob Webster
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 4:16 PM

John Ferrero (J&C Aircraft Engines) converted one for a Bristol Fighter (I think

it was) replica. John is working his way out of the business - getting old like
me - but he knows how to upright a Ranger.

Bob

----- Original Message -----

From: jameslbryan@btopenworld.com

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hi Paul

I am sure some one will know how to make a ranger engine run the wrong way up!!

I am sure some one used to run a Ranger in a dragster ?

G-RGUS will be over on Saturday for you to have a play with.

Good luck in your quest

James

________________________________

From: Paul Ford

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 19:12:53

Subject: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hello

I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have not joined any

group before, so am a complete newbie.

I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica Fokker DRI

(G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.

I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a Ranger engine

in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker DVII. I am scratch

building it from plans.

I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge range of

expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can learn more to help in

my decision.

I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at mastering the

internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the ropes here!

Grateful thanks

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3630 - Release Date: 05/11/11

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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'

Paul Ford · Post by **Paul Ford** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:32 am

'Wow!

________________________________
From: Jamie Treat
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 12 May, 2011 0:56:55
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

All,

The club has a few pics of the Ranger powered Dragster. Also happens my next
door at the Airpark has a completely restored Ranger Dragster in his collection.

Hope to see it this summer. Car sits in one of his garages in Calif. Also has a
Salt Flat racer made out of a 600 gal fuel tank from a F-100 Super Saber.

JST

Jamie S. Treat
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Fairchild Club CD ROM Editor
IAC 5, Chapter President
http://iac5.org
Kelly Airpark (CO15)
http://www.kellyairpark.com
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, CO 80106

Hm/Hgr 303-648-0130
Cell 303-304-7937

Quote of the Month: I hope you either take up parachute jumping or stay out of
single motored airplanes at night.

- Charles A. Lindbergh, to Wiley Post 1931

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Etter
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

I did hear from a friend of mine, who lives if Kansas City Kansas, that during
the late 40's, Ranger motors were used in race cars. They were mounted upside
down, and the RPM's that they were turning would scare the crap out of any that
happened to be flying behind that motor at the time. I don't know who you could
contact, most all of my friends from that era have passed.
I knew, in the early 70's, there was a gentleman at StateLine airport, south
Kansas City, who was building a DVII and had intensions of putting an upside
down Ranger in it. I don't know what ever became of that project. I did see a
completed top wing and a fuselage. Name... I really don't remember a name.
Someone in EAA around K.C. may remember.
Bob

________________________________
From: Neil Baughman
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 1:28:27 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Old Rhinebec Aerodrome has one in thier Albatross DVa.

--- On Wed, 5/11/11, Bob Webster wrote:

From: Bob Webster
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 4:16 PM

John Ferrero (J&C Aircraft Engines) converted one for a Bristol Fighter (I think

it was) replica. John is working his way out of the business - getting old like
me - but he knows how to upright a Ranger.

Bob

----- Original Message -----

From: jameslbryan@btopenworld.com

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hi Paul

I am sure some one will know how to make a ranger engine run the wrong way up!!

I am sure some one used to run a Ranger in a dragster ?

G-RGUS will be over on Saturday for you to have a play with.

Good luck in your quest

James

________________________________

From: Paul Ford

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 19:12:53

Subject: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Hello

I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have not joined any

group before, so am a complete newbie.

I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica Fokker DRI

(G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.

I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a Ranger engine

in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker DVII. I am scratch

building it from plans.

I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge range of

expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can learn more to help in

my decision.

I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at mastering the

internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the ropes here!

Grateful thanks

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3630 - Release Date: 05/11/11

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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'

Paul Ford · Post by **Paul Ford** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:35 am

'Hi Jan
We just happen to have a Queen 30 - but we arent 100 percent sure it's the right
choice. Opinions seem to vary.

Paul

________________________________
From: Jan Servaites
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 12 May, 2011 16:36:21
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

The early engines were not necessarly "long stroke", they were just
huge, like about 1,000 cubic inches. The Ranger would be marginal for a
Fokker D7, and so replica builders use the Gypsy engine from the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Gipsy_Queen
They are larger displacement than the ranger. The Blue Max D7s used the
Gipsy Queen engines.
Jan

Mike Danielle wrote:

> Possibly that Curt. The Aerodrome folks were talking about how poorly the
> "smaller" props performed on some of the birds built for "The Blue
> Max" even
> though the new engines were rated at higher horsepower than the oringinal
> Daimlers. The old WWI birds all used HUGE props, moving a lot of air
> but at
> relatively low RPM's. To do that I'm guessing the old engines were
> long-stroked (under-square) beasts that produced enormous torque in a
> narrow
> RPM range.
>
> Ranger Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curt Kinchen"
> To: >
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII
> Project
>
> >I suspect that although the originals had 160-180HP and the Ranger is
> rated
> > at 200HP it really isn't developing that at the RPMs available with the
> > standard props being used. And if they are running something close to an
> > original Fokker prop and turning the same RPMs, a Ranger is only
> going to
> > develop something around 100-125 HP.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Derek Staha > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Paul,
> >>
> >> This has been discussed on the "aerodrome" forum (www.theaerodrome.com)
> >> quite a lot. The general concensusis the Ranger just doesn't have
> enough
> >> power to fly a full-scale D.VII replica well. You will be disappointed
> >> with
> >> its performance. It will be underpowered. I have heard this from the
> >> guys
> >> at The Vintage Aviator (NZ guys) as well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>
> >> From: jastabinksaviation@yahoo.com
>
> >> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 18:12:53 +0000
> >> Subject: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII
> Project
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have not
> >> joined any group before, so am a complete newbie.
> >>
> >> I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica
> Fokker
> >> DRI
> >> (G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.
> >>
> >> I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a
> Ranger
> >> engine in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker
> DVII. I am
> >> scratch building it from plans.
> >>
> >> I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge
> >> range
> >> of expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can learn
> more to
> >> help in my decision.
> >>
> >> I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at mastering
> >> the
> >> internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the ropes here!
> >>
> >> Grateful thanks
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Curt Kinchen
> > ptcurt@gmail.com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Paul Ford · Post by **Paul Ford** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:39 am

'Hi Bob
Thanks for the link & the advice. Very much appreciated.
The video is awesome.
Best wishes
Paul

________________________________
From: Bob
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 12 May, 2011 19:54:28
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Paul,

Contact Andy Parks at Vintage Aero Flying Museum. He has a Ranger in his D-VII.
It is plumbed and installed upside down. He had a lot of trouble at first,
including minimal power and poor Center of Gravity. The original engine not only
had massive cubic inches, but also had a LOT of weight. He has had the engine
rebuilt and now has plenty of power. I think he may be having some engine
problems still. He flys stuff every week at 5,000 foot elevation, so he needs
more power than us 'flat landers'.

Andy is at: http://www.vafm.org/

They sell a wonderful video titled "Dawn Patrol", about their flight to Dayton
Ohio. The vidoe is worth purchasing, even if you don't have a Fokker D-VII.

Bob Waldron
1939 Fairchild 24K
Webster, Minnesota USA
NC18681 at HotMail dot com

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Ford"
wrote:

>
> Hello
>
> I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have not joined
>any group before, so am a complete newbie.
>
>
> I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica Fokker DRI
>(G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.
>
>
> I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a Ranger engine
>in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker DVII. I am scratch
>building it from plans.
>
>
> I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge range of
>expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can learn more to help in
>my decision.
>
>
> I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at mastering the
>internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the ropes here!
>
> Grateful thanks
>
> Paul
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Paul Ford · Post by **Paul Ford** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:46 am

'Thanks Bo. Very helpful.
Paul

________________________________
From: BO
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 13 May, 2011 3:19:12
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII Project

Welcome Paul.
To make the info short. When I had my PT 26 I delved into Ranger
operation and was able to pull
out of the company library info on any engine manufactured for
Aircraft. (I worked in Wright Aero Engineering Dept.) Through contacts
with the guys into old birds I was told that the Rangers were only good
for about 200 hrs operating in the inverted position. However the
Masters may have solved the problem by now.
Note. Pensacola Naval Air Museum has a D7 reproduction. The Navy had
150 of them after WWI. Just Info.

BO. Flying Circus Airshows. Bealeton VA.

On 5/12/2011 2:54 PM, Bob wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> Contact Andy Parks at Vintage Aero Flying Museum. He has a Ranger in
> his D-VII. It is plumbed and installed upside down. He had a lot of
> trouble at first, including minimal power and poor Center of Gravity.
> The original engine not only had massive cubic inches, but also had a
> LOT of weight. He has had the engine rebuilt and now has plenty of
> power. I think he may be having some engine problems still. He flys
> stuff every week at 5,000 foot elevation, so he needs more power than
> us 'flat landers'.
>
> Andy is at: http://www.vafm.org/
>
> They sell a wonderful video titled "Dawn Patrol", about their flight
> to Dayton Ohio. The vidoe is worth purchasing, even if you don't have
> a Fokker D-VII.
>
> Bob Waldron
> 1939 Fairchild 24K
> Webster, Minnesota USA
> NC18681 at HotMail dot com
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> , "Paul Ford"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have
> not joined any group before, so am a complete newbie.
> >
> > I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica
> Fokker DRI (G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.
> >
> > I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a
> Ranger engine in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker
> DVII. I am scratch building it from plans.
> >
> > I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge
> range of expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can
> learn more to help in my decision.
> >
> > I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at
> mastering the internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the
> ropes here!
> >
> > Grateful thanks
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Jan Servaites · Post by **Jan Servaites** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:10 pm

'Paul,
That would be my choice over the Ranger. I know of one builder that has
installed a Queen 30 in his new Fok D7 and I know some other D7 builders
using the Ranger. It does make the most sense.
Jan

Paul Ford wrote:

> Hi Jan
> We just happen to have a Queen 30 - but we arent 100 percent sure it's
> the right
> choice. Opinions seem to vary.
>
> Paul
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jan Servaites >
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 12 May, 2011 16:36:21
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII
> Project
>
> The early engines were not necessarly "long stroke", they were just
> huge, like about 1,000 cubic inches. The Ranger would be marginal for a
> Fokker D7, and so replica builders use the Gypsy engine from the UK.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Gipsy_Queen
> They are larger displacement than the ranger. The Blue Max D7s used the
> Gipsy Queen engines.
> Jan
>
> Mike Danielle wrote:
>
> > Possibly that Curt. The Aerodrome folks were talking about how
> poorly the
> > "smaller" props performed on some of the birds built for "The Blue
> > Max" even
> > though the new engines were rated at higher horsepower than the
> oringinal
> > Daimlers. The old WWI birds all used HUGE props, moving a lot of air
> > but at
> > relatively low RPM's. To do that I'm guessing the old engines were
> > long-stroked (under-square) beasts that produced enormous torque in a
> > narrow
> > RPM range.
> >
> > Ranger Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Curt Kinchen" >
> > To:
> > >
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII
> > Project
> >
> > >I suspect that although the originals had 160-180HP and the Ranger is
> > rated
> > > at 200HP it really isn't developing that at the RPMs available
> with the
> > > standard props being used. And if they are running something close
> to an
> > > original Fokker prop and turning the same RPMs, a Ranger is only
> > going to
> > > develop something around 100-125 HP.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Derek Staha
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Paul,
> > >>
> > >> This has been discussed on the "aerodrome" forum
> (www.theaerodrome.com)
> > >> quite a lot. The general concensusis the Ranger just doesn't have
> > enough
> > >> power to fly a full-scale D.VII replica well. You will be
> disappointed
> > >> with
> > >> its performance. It will be underpowered. I have heard this from the
> > >> guys
> > >> at The Vintage Aviator (NZ guys) as well.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
> > >> From: jastabinksaviation@yahoo.com
>
> >
> > >> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 18:12:53 +0000
> > >> Subject: [fairchildclub] Potential Ranger Engine for Fokker DVII
> > Project
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hello
> > >>
> > >> I am a new member of your group & very pleased to be here. I have not
> > >> joined any group before, so am a complete newbie.
> > >>
> > >> I am based in the UK, and I own and operate a full scale replica
> > Fokker
> > >> DRI
> > >> (G-FOKK) which I scratch built using Ron Sands plans.
> > >>
> > >> I am at the very early stages of deciding whether or not to use a
> > Ranger
> > >> engine in one of my projects, a full scale replica of a Fokker
> > DVII. I am
> > >> scratch building it from plans.
> > >>
> > >> I have joined the group because I understand the members have a huge
> > >> range
> > >> of expertise on this particular engine, and hope that I can learn
> > more to
> > >> help in my decision.
> > >>
> > >> I am told that I am better at building aircraft than I am at
> mastering
> > >> the
> > >> internet, so please be patient with me while I learn the ropes here!
> > >>
> > >> Grateful thanks
> > >>
> > >> Paul
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Curt Kinchen
> > > ptcurt@gmail.com
>
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

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