Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

David Carrick · Post by **David Carrick** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:07 am

'
Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum.

Warm Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca '

Airy-H. Millet · Post by **Airy-H. Millet** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:56 am

'
Hello!

From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine.
BUT...
Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil...

You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?
As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the engine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears.

As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides.

But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied.

To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air-fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog.

Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)...

Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request to be lubricated anymore

)))

By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed).

Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).
By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally close them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly.

Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.
check the drain pump as well (gear play).

Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts.

Airy
ex-F24R mechanics
LFOR - France

De : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com de la part de David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub]
Envoyé : mardi 14 novembre 2017 17:07
À : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum.

Warm Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca
'

David Carrick · Post by **David Carrick** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:24 am

'
Compressions were checked on annual inspection this year and were showing high 60s on all 6. It would be interesting to check them again though, after running it as much as we have.

It was the rear exhaust when it did leak after shutdown. It may have only done it the one time after shutdown on the ferry flight (2.1 hours in the air).

It's almost winter here now, so we're running Phillips 66 100AD. Another item of note, I've blocked the air intake on the oil cooler but it's still very difficult to reach 35c on the ground before takeoff. In the air we get about 50-55c oil temps in cruise at outside air temperatures near 0. I'd like it to get a little warmer.

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Airy-H. Millet' flyingairy@hotmail.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: November 15, 2017 3:56 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hello!

From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine.
BUT...
Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil...

You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?
As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the engine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears.

As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides.

But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied.

To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air-fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog.

Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)...

Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request to be lubricated anymore

)))

By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed).

Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).
By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally close them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly.

Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.
check the drain pump as well (gear play).

Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts.

Airy
ex-F24R mechanics
LFOR - France

De : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com de la part de David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub]
Envoyé : mardi 14 novembre 2017 17:07
À : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum.

Warm Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

'

gtg15751 · Post by **gtg15751** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:43 am

'how con one detect a weak or failed scavenge pump?? is failure common?
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: 'Airy-H. Millet' flyingairy@hotmail.com [fairchildclub]Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 02:56To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comReply To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comSubject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hello!

From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine.
BUT...
Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil....

You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?
As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the engine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears.

As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides.

But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied.

To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air-fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog.

Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)...

Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request to be lubricated anymore

)))

By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed).

Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).
By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally close them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly.

Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.
check the drain pump as well (gear play).

Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts.

Airy
ex-F24R mechanics
LFOR - France

De : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com de la part de David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub]
Envoyé : mardi 14 novembre 2017 17:07
À : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum.

Warm Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

'

Jack Mitchard · Post by **Jack Mitchard** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:48 am

' David, You could also check your breather for obstructions. That can cause very high internal crankcase pressures and cause it to burn more oil. It happened on my PT-19. Jack Mitchard

----- Original Message ----- From: dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub] To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AM Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Compressions were checked on annual inspection this year and were showing high 60s on all 6. It would be interesting to check them again though, after running it as much as we have.

It was the rear exhaust when it did leak after shutdown. It may have only done it the one time after shutdown on the ferry flight (2.1 hours in the air).

It's almost winter here now, so we're running Phillips 66 100AD. Another item of note, I've blocked the air intake on the oil cooler but it's still very difficult to reach 35c on the ground before takeoff. In the air we get about 50-55c oil temps in cruise at outside air temperatures near 0. I'd like it to get a little warmer.

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Airy-H. Millet' flyingairy@hotmail.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: November 15, 2017 3:56 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hello!

From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine.
BUT...
Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil...

You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?
As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the engine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears.

As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides.

But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied.

To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air-fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog.

Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)...

Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request to be lubricated anymore )))

By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed).

Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).
By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally close them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly.

Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.
check the drain pump as well (gear play).

Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts.

Airy
ex-F24R mechanics
LFOR - France

De : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com de la part de David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub]
Envoyé : mardi 14 novembre 2017 17:07
À : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum.

Warm Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

'

Jamie Treat · Post by **Jamie Treat** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:07 am

'David, Expect up to 2qts an hour for a healthy mil spec engine. The harder you run it, the more it will throw out. If I ran mine at 2250+ I would see 2.5. Mil spec allowance is up to 1 gal per hour. I have gone cross country in a hurry and stopped to oil up, no fuelJ Typical upgrades to engine for reduction in oil consumption, are Piston mod (Warner oil control Mod drilled holes at bottom skirt), modern valve guide seals, tighter ring clearances. One must be careful, you can dry up a Ranger to much and seize. A Ranger will and should always use oil. Run the engine hard due to sitting so long. Perform Compression test, keep monitoring. If it does not improve over time, looking at least a top overhaul. The low TBO was set by the Military. Rangers will go longer between overhaul. 600+ hours on top is common. More on the bottom end, have seen 1800 hrs. If your compressions are respectable, and you still have blow by out the case vent, you can install a Air Wolf Air-Oil separator. Very nice unit. As for tail wheel shimmy. The key is snug clearances. Look at the following. Drag link side and end play. You will find wear on the airframe side, the two ears. I weld in bushings to distribute load. Collar wear. And the big thing is the splines security and clearance between the tracks and spline. The F-24 has 2 spline. The PT has 6 spline. C. Bell in Fla has been converting the F-24 to 6 spline. You will find loose splines. They are riveted in place. Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Fairchild Club DVD Editor
IAC 5, Chapter President
http://www.iac5.org
Kelly Airpark (CO15) http://www.kellyairpark.org
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, CO 80106 Hm 303-648-0130
Cell 303-304-7937 AR&R LLC Drop Box: ARR Dropbox Link Quote of the Month: When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity, as slowly and gently as possible. - Advice given to RAF pilots during W.W.II. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:49 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250 David,You could also check your breather for obstructions. That can cause very high internal crankcase pressures and cause it to burn more oil. It happened on my PT-19.Jack Mitchard

----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AMSubject: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250
Compressions were checked on annual inspection this year and were showing high 60s on all 6. It would be interesting to check them again though, after running it as much as we have.

It was the rear exhaust when it did leak after shutdown. It may have only done it the one time after shutdown on the ferry flight (2.1 hours in the air).

It's almost winter here now, so we're running Phillips 66 100AD. Another item of note, I've blocked the air intake on the oil cooler but it's still very difficult to reach 35c on the ground before takeoff. In the air we get about 50-55c oil temps in cruise at outside air temperatures near 0. I'd like it to get a little warmer.
David Carrick Director, Flight OperationsCanadian Historical Aircraft AssociationCell: 519-360-0503E-mail: From:
Subject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250    Hello! From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine.BUT...Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil... You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the engine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears. As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides. But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied. To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air-fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog. Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)... Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request to be lubricated anymore ))) By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed). Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally close them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly. Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.check the drain pump as well (gear play). Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts. Airyex-F24R mechanicsLFOR - FranceDe :
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250    Hi Everyone, New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4. Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown. I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour. The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup. I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum. Warm Regards, David Carrick Director, Flight OperationsCanadian Historical Aircraft AssociationCell: 519-360-0503E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

'

David Carrick · Post by **David Carrick** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:55 am

'

This is some great information - thank you.

I'm not sure what 'hard' equates to in terms of ranger running, but we fly a lot of formation with faster aircraft. I did a few trips on Remembrance day with the power up at 2200rpm, which I think would probably qualify as a good hard run. I
will recheck compressions as soon as I get a chance.

Still need to figure out how to get the oil temps to come up. We plan on flying it through the winter but right now it's looking like that might not be possible. Even with a totally blocked oil cooler its hard to get it up to temp.

?

Any recommendations for overhaul shops specialising in the Ranger?

Regards,

David Carrick
Director, Flight Operations

Canadian Historical Aircraft Association

Cell: 519-360-0503
E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Jamie Treat' jamietreat@q.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: November 15, 2017 10:07 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

David,

Expect up to 2qts an hour for a healthy mil spec engine. The harder you run it, the more it will throw out. If I ran mine at 2250+ I would see 2.5. Mil spec allowance is up to 1 gal per hour.
I have gone cross country in a hurry and stopped to oil up, no fuelJ

Typical upgrades to engine for reduction in oil consumption, are Piston mod (Warner oil control Mod drilled holes at bottom skirt), modern valve guide seals, tighter ring clearances. One must
be careful, you can dry up a Ranger to much and seize. A Ranger will and should always use oil.

Run the engine hard due to sitting so long. Perform Compression test, keep monitoring. If it does not improve over time, looking at least a top overhaul. The low TBO was set by the Military.
Rangers will go longer between overhaul. 600+ hours on top is common. More on the bottom end, have seen 1800 hrs.

If your compressions are respectable, and you still have blow by out the case vent, you can install a Air Wolf Air-Oil separator. Very nice unit.
< /p>
As for tail wheel shimmy. The key is snug clearances. Look at the following. Drag link side and end play. You will find wear on the airframe side, the two ears. I weld in bushings to distribute
load. Collar wear. And the big thing is the splines security and clearance between the tracks and spline. The F-24 has 2 spline. The PT has 6 spline. C. Bell in Fla has been converting the F-24 to 6 spline. You will find loose splines. They are riveted in
place.

Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Fairchild Club DVD Editor
IAC 5 , Chapter President
http://www.iac5.org
Kelly Airpark (CO15) MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.kellyairpark.com" claiming to be
http://www.kellyairpark.org
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, CO 80106

Hm 303-648-0130
Cell 303-304-7937

AR&R L LC Drop Box:

ARR Dropbox Link

Quote of the Month:
When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity, as slowly and gently as possible. - Advice given to RAF pilots during W.W.II.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent : Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:49 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

David,

You could also check your breather for obstructions. That can cause very high internal crankcase pressures and cause it to burn more oil. It happened on my PT-19.

Jack Mitchard

< span style="font-size:10.0pt;">----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AM

Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Compressions were checked on annual inspection this year and were showing high 60s on all 6. It would be interesting to check them again though, after running it as much as we have.

It was the rear exhaust when it did leak after shutdown. It may hav e only done it the one time after shutdown on the ferry flight (2.1 hours in the air).

It's almost winter here now, so we're running Phillips 66 100AD. Another item of note, I've blocked the air intake on the oil cooler but it's still very difficult to reach 35c on the ground before takeoff. In the air we get about 50-55c oil temps in cruise
at outside air temperatures near 0. I'd like it to get a little warmer.

David Carrick

Director, Flight Operations

Canadian Historical Aircraft Association

Cell: 519-360-0503

E-mail:

From:

Subject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hello!
< o>
From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request
mandatory inspections of the engine.
BUT...
Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil...

You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?
As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the en gine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings,
and oil leaks appears.

As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides.

But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period
to have stuck rings when oil dryied.

To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air- fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure
fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog.

Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw
liters away in the air quickly)...

Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request t o be lubricated anymore )))

By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled
as needed).

Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).
By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as
a varnish on those holes will finally cl ose them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly.

Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.
check the drain pump as well (gear play).

Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to
the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts.

Airy
ex-F24R mechanics
LFOR - France

De :

Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated
a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012.
It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about
5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours
after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, h ow normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete
stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum. < o>

Warm Regards,

David Carrick

Director, Flight Operations

Canadian Historical Aircraft Association

Cell: 519-360-0503

E-mail:
dcarrick@ch2a.ca

'

Emil Dular · Post by **Emil Dular** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:42 am

'
A bad crank seal can also cause high oil consumption by pressurizing the crankcase. During flight ram air gets past the seal and into the case and out the breather vent. The effect is the same as stuck rings and other causes already mentioned. On "flat" engines it's pretty easy as you can modify an oil filler cap with a hose barb and run a line to a manometer (or an airspeed indicator). Run up your engine and note the gauge readings on the airspeed indicator or manometer. Test fly the aircraft and note the gauge readings at different RPM’s and different flight attitudes such as climb, cruise and decent. Back in the day, published service bulletins describing this kind of testing, but I have not seen one specific to the Ranger. Generally, low horsepower engines should not exceed 1” to 2” of water on a manometer or about 45 MPH on an airspeed indicator and high horsepower engines should not exceed 2” to 3” of water or 90 MPH.

Emil

On 15-Nov-17 09:49, 'Jack Mitchard' fighterjack@charter.net [fairchildclub] wrote:

David, You could also check your breather for obstructions. That can cause very high internal crankcase pressures and cause it to burn more oil. It happened on my PT-19. Jack Mitchard ----- Original Message ----- From: dcarrick@ch2a.ca%20[fairchildclub] To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AM Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Compressions were checked on annual inspection this year and were showing high 60s on all 6. It would be interesting to check them again though, after running it as much as we have.

It was the rear exhaust when it did leak after shutdown. It may have only done it the one time after shutdown on the ferry flight (2.1 hours in the air).

It's almost winter here now, so we're running Phillips 66 100AD. Another item of note, I've blocked the air intake on the oil cooler but it's still very difficult to reach 35c on the ground before takeoff. In the air we get about 50-55c oil temps in cruise at outside air temperatures near 0. I'd like it to get a little warmer.

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Airy-H. Millet' flyingairy@hotmail.com [fairchildclub] fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: November 15, 2017 3:56 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250
Hello!

From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine.
BUT...
Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil...

You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?
As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the engine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears.

As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides.

But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied.

To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air-fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog.

Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)...

Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request to be lubricated anymore )))

By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed).

Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).
By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally close them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly.

Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.
check the drain pump as well (gear play).

Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts.

Airy
ex-F24R mechanics
LFOR - France

De : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com de la part de David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub] fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Envoyé : mardi 14 novembre 2017 17:07
À : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250
Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum.

Warm Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

'

Steve Link · Post by **Steve Link** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:18 pm

'
I have to say this is almost the perfect thread and it is refreshing to see. So often someone will reply to something being posted and delete what they were replying to, making the reader search back to see what prompted the response. This thread could be saved from the last post to a folder and would be a great source of info if needed. Great post from all involved!!!!!

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:55 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

This is some great information - thank you.

I'm not sure what 'hard' equates to in terms of ranger running, but we fly a lot of formation with faster aircraft. I did a few trips on Remembrance day with the power up at 2200rpm, which I think would probably qualify as a good hard run. I will recheck compressions as soon as I get a chance.

Still need to figure out how to get the oil temps to come up. We plan on flying it through the winter but right now it's looking like that might not be possible. Even with a totally blocked oil cooler its hard to get it up to temp.

Any recommendations for overhaul shops specialising in the Ranger?

Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Jamie Treat' jamietreat@q.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: November 15, 2017 10:07 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250
David, Expect up to 2qts an hour for a healthy mil spec engine. The harder you run it, the more it will throw out. If I ran mine at 2250+ I would see 2.5. Mil spec allowance is up to 1 gal per hour. I have gone cross country in a hurry and stopped to oil up, no fuelJ Typical upgrades to engine for reduction in oil consumption, are Piston mod (Warner oil control Mod drilled holes at bottom skirt), modern valve guide seals, tighter ring clearances. One must be careful, you can dry up a Ranger to much and seize. A Ranger will and should always use oil. Run the engine hard due to sitting so long. Perform Compression test, keep monitoring. If it does not improve over time, looking at least a top overhaul. The low TBO was set by the Military. Rangers will go longer between overhaul. 600+ hours on top is common. More on the bottom end, have seen 1800 hrs. If your compressions are respectable, and you still have blow by out the case vent, you can install a Air Wolf Air-Oil separator. Very nice unit. < /p> As for tail wheel shimmy. The key is snug clearances. Look at the following. Drag link side and end play. You will find wear on the airframe side, the two ears. I weld in bushings to distribute load. Collar wear. And the big thing is the splines security and clearance between the tracks and spline. The F-24 has 2 spline. The PT has 6 spline. C. Bell in Fla has been converting the F-24 to 6 spline. You will find loose splines. They are riveted in place. Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Fairchild Club DVD Editor
IAC 5 , Chapter President
http://www.iac5.org
Kelly Airpark (CO15) MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.kellyairpark.com" claiming to be http://www.kellyairpark.org
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, CO 80106 Hm 303-648-0130
Cell 303-304-7937 AR&R L LC Drop Box: ARR Dropbox Link Quote of the Month: When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity, as slowly and gently as possible. - Advice given to RAF pilots during W.W.II. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent : Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:49 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250 David, You could also check your breather for obstructions. That can cause very high internal crankcase pressures and cause it to burn more oil. It happened on my PT-19. Jack Mitchard

< span style="font-size:10.0pt;">----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:24 AM Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250
Compressions were checked on annual inspection this year and were showing high 60s on all 6. It would be interesting to check them again though, after running it as much as we have.

It was the rear exhaust when it did leak after shutdown. It may hav e only done it the one time after shutdown on the ferry flight (2.1 hours in the air).

It's almost winter here now, so we're running Phillips 66 100AD. Another item of note, I've blocked the air intake on the oil cooler but it's still very difficult to reach 35c on the ground before takeoff. In the air we get about 50-55c oil temps in cruise at outside air temperatures near 0. I'd like it to get a little warmer.
David Carrick Director, Flight Operations Canadian Historical Aircraft Association Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: From:
Subject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250 Hello! < o> From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine. BUT... Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil... You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust? As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the en gine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears. As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides. But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied. To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air- fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog. Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)... Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request t o be lubricated anymore ))) By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed). Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides). By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally cl ose them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly. Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine. check the drain pump as well (gear play). Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts. Airy ex-F24R mechanics LFOR - France De :
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250 Hi Everyone, New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4. Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown. I guess my first question is, h ow normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour. The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup. I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum. < o> Warm Regards, David Carrick Director, Flight Operations Canadian Historical Aircraft Association Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

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Airy-H. Millet · Post by **Airy-H. Millet** » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:50 am

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As I saw you are using 100AD oil....

AVOID absolutely any dispersive oil in engine without fine filtering device (replaceable cartridge with 6 micrometer filtering media for example)....

dispersive oil, does maintain particles moving with the oil flow along the oil system, then it bring them to valve-guide/valve play, and flow through it with particles....

it is as well as putting a hand of sand in your oil! don't expect better results in such old design engine!!

About oil temperature: it seams your vernatherm is not working properly...you may need to send your oilcooler to pacific-oil-cooler for full overhaule with vernatherm!

Airy

De : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com de la part de David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub]
Envoyé : mercredi 15 novembre 2017 14:24
À : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [fairchildclub] Re: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Compressions were checked on annual inspection this year and were showing high 60s on all 6. It would be interesting to check them again though, after running it as much as we have.

It was the rear exhaust when it did leak after shutdown. It may have only done it the one time after shutdown on the ferry flight (2.1 hours in the air).

It's almost winter here now, so we're running Phillips 66 100AD. Another item of note, I've blocked the air intake on the oil cooler but it's still very difficult to reach 35c on the ground before takeoff. In the air we get about 50-55c oil temps in cruise at outside air temperatures near 0. I'd like it to get a little warmer.

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Airy-H. Millet' flyingairy@hotmail.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: November 15, 2017 3:56 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] RE: New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hello!

From a former F24R46 user and mechanics as I was during 10 years of airshows and fly'in...I can say, your engine is still within the limit of use from documents: the limit being 4 qts ann hour to request mandatory inspections of the engine.
BUT...
Nowadays, we know we can do better than those limits, and spare some oil...

You said the engine is leaking from the exhaust....does he leak as well from front and rear exhaust?
As most of the time, when stopping the engine at the end of the flight, the oil continue to drain to the bottom of the engine, it goes mostly to rear cylinder. Then it slowly filled in the piston rings, and oil leaks appears.

As well through the valves-guides by the way, and it's even easier as there can be quite a lot of play between valves and guides.

But, if it leaks from every posts, I will recommend to make compression tests, and even open cylinders and inspect for broken or stuck piston rings, it is much common reason after long immobilization period to have stuck rings when oil dryied.

To understand what happened in the engine in flight: combustion pressure increase briefly and a lot when the air-fuel is fired...then a part of this pressure passed between the piston rings...this pressure fulfilled the crankcase area which is full of oily fog. As the inside pressure grow upper than atmospheric pressure, the engine vent let the case emptying from those gases mixed with oil fog.

Depending on local temperature, when using such oil-consumer engine, we did use AERO100 oil on cold weather, and AERO120 oil on warm summer days, this does limit a few the loss of oil. (using AERO80 throw liters away in the air quickly)...

Using such F24R for airshows, 10 to 12 week-ends a year, I can say I spent a lot of hours cleaning the plane's belly down to the tailwheel (which never request to be lubricated anymore

)))

By the way, I will remind all, that original Ranger documents required 250 hours "top overhaule" (thus cylinder, piston, piston rings, valves, valves seats and guides are to be inspected and even overhauled as needed).

Some of our great contributors on this forum did some mods by adding valve-guides seals, which is one of the best idea (with new materials valve-guides).
By experience with other "inverted engines" (such as cirrus/gypsy/renault), I will recommend to enhance slightly the size of the hole behind the oil-scrapper ing. In time it often show that oil drying as a varnish on those holes will finally close them, then the oil-scrapper can not work properly.

Don't fly to much before inspecting your engine.
check the drain pump as well (gear play).

Do not try different location or length of vent tubes, or different shapes, we did already a lot, even having a tube along the landing gear, not have to clean the airframe.....it never changed anything to the oil consumption, else than working deeply on engine parts.

Airy
ex-F24R mechanics
LFOR - France

De : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com de la part de David Carrick dcarrick@ch2a.ca [fairchildclub]
Envoyé : mardi 14 novembre 2017 17:07
À : fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [fairchildclub] New Member - Fairchild 24R46-250

Hi Everyone,

New member here - I am the Director of Flight Operations for the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, a vintage aircraft museum located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

We were recently donated Fairchild 24R46 #250. It was in the Canadian RAF as a communications airplane, numbered 4809. It has the 200hp Ranger engine, as I'm sure you guys already know. We were also donated a number of spare parts we are still inventorying. For many years now we have been operating a 4 aircraft vintage fleet consisting of two Canadian Chipmunks, a PT17 Stearman, and a Harvard Mk4.

Certainly having some fun with this new airplane. I ferried the aircraft to our hangar from it's previous base in Welland, Ontario. It was a very active aircraft until the previous owner fell ill in 2012. It sat since May 27th 2012, and then was re-inspected this year in July and flown once before we picked it up for the trek home. It runs very smoothly, but in the 2.1 hour flight back to Windsor it burned through about 8 quarts of oil. I have flown it about 5 hours since we got it, and it has "normalized" (and I use the term loosely) to about 2.5-3qts/hr. It seems to send a lot onto the belly, via what appears to be the largest of the vent tubes at the firewall. It also leaks from the exhaust a couple of hours after shutdown.

I guess my first question is, how normal is this? We don't have any experience with the Ranger engine but I've heard the oil consumption is legendary, but I expected 1-2qts per hour.

The other question I have is in regards to tailwheel shimmy. Ours is terrible. Doesn't seem to matter how nicely you set the tail down on rollout, it goes off until you lift it again or come to a complete stop. I have read that it may be looseness in the turnbuckles, I plan on inspecting those tonight... but I'm sure there are other tricks with this tail wheel setup.

I am happy to be a member of your group, it appears there is a wealth of knowledge in here - any shared knowledge will be well received by our museum.

Warm Regards,

David Carrick Director, Flight Operations
Canadian Historical Aircraft Association
Cell: 519-360-0503 E-mail: dcarrick@ch2a.ca

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