Fairchild Club Forum

'
I just posted a pic that looks like a PT-23 in the albums but it has a cowling on it. Early production or prototype? Prop and exhaust looks different also.'

'Steve, You have found something special there.  When I first read your posting I expected you had found an M-62B pic, however it is even more unusual than that.  I can identify the actual machine but not it's engine or who was responsible for the modifications.   The partial serial no. on the fin and rudder "33 605" is the clue.  I believe there is a hidden "1" between the 3 and 6 which would make it PT-19A-AE, s/no. 43-31605.  The USAAF markings make it unlikely to be an M-62B.  To the best of my knowledge the Army never even trialled the M-62B, it was civil and export model.   I have looked at the US history card for 43-31605 and it contains some very unusual entries.  The aircraft comes from a batch of Aeronca-built PT-19As - no mention of PT-23 on the card, nor clues as to an engine - except...   The destination is given as Detroit - and there were no AAF primary training schools near Detroit.  I am having trouble in deciphering the hand-written assignment entry but it appears to read "S..... Motor Research, Detroit, Mich". Accepted 3-29-44. Ferried from Middletown, OH, via Romulus, to Detroit, MI, arriving 4-4-44. To RFC at Camden 10-12-45.   I will try and capture an image of the Detroit entry with my camera and post it in the photo section.  I suspect it may mean more to someone in the U.S. than it does to me.   Incidentally, PT-19A-AE 43-31604 also had a rather unusual assignment - to the Ranger Aircraft Div., Farmingdale, N.Y.   The intrigue does not end there, 43-31605 is c/no 10434AE, which became NC55076.   Most of you experienced Fairchild types will know of D.D. Funk Aviation Company, Inc. Of Salina, KS, who in the nineteen-sixties converted twelve Fairchild PT airframes as agricultural aircraft.  Ten of these were given new registrations (N1125Z to N1134Z), one was sold to Guatemala, and one - presumably the prototype retained its original registration, N55076.     N55076 was suffered "substantial damage" in a accident in June 1964, but must have been repaired because it has recently received a new C of Reg.Cheers, Tony

---In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, wrote :


I just posted a pic that looks like a PT-23 in the albums but it has a cowling on it. Early production or prototype? Prop and exhaust looks different also.'

'Further image added.  I have done a "lighten shadows" action with Photoshop Elements 4 on a portion of Steve's pic in an attempt to see some details of the unidentified engine.  Looks ununusual to my eyes.Tony Broadhurst'

' Wow! What a history and an enigma! Tony, you are the best!
Tailwinds, Steve.
 
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:15:44 -0700
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: A PT What?

  Steve,
You have found something special there.  When I first read your posting I expected you had found an M-62B pic, however it is even more unusual than that.  I can identify the actual machine but not it's engine or who was responsible for the modifications.   The partial serial no. on the fin and rudder "33 605" is the clue.  I believe there is a hidden "1" between the 3 and 6 which would make it PT-19A-AE, s/no. 43-31605.  The USAAF markings make it unlikely to be an M-62B.  To the best of my knowledge the Army never even trialled the M-62B, it was civil and export model.   I have looked at the US history card for 43-31605 and it contains some very unusual entries.  The aircraft comes from a batch of Aeronca-built PT-19As - no mention of PT-23 on the card, nor clues as to an engine - except...   The destination is given as Detroit - and there were no AAF primary training schools near Detroit.  I am having trouble in deciphering the hand-written assignment entry but it appears to read "S..... Motor Research, Detroit, Mich". Accepted 3-29-44. Ferried from Middletown, OH, via Romulus, to Detroit, MI, arriving 4-4-44. To RFC at Camden 10-12-45.   I will try and capture an image of the Detroit entry with my camera and post it in the photo section.  I suspect it may mean more to someone in the U.S. than it does to me.   Incidentally, PT-19A-AE 43-31604 also had a rather unusual assignment - to the Ranger Aircraft Div., Farmingdale, N.Y.   The intrigue does not end there, 43-31605 is c/no 10434AE, which became NC55076.   Most of you experienced Fairchild types will know of D.D. Funk Aviation Company, Inc. Of Salina, KS, who in the nineteen-sixties converted twelve Fairchild PT airframes as agricultural aircraft.  Ten of these were given new registrations (N1125Z to N1134Z), one was sold to Guatemala, and one - presumably the prototype retained its original registration, N55076.     N55076 was suffered "substantial damage" in a accident in June 1964, but must have been repaired because it has recently received a new C of Reg.Cheers, Tony

---In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I just posted a pic that looks like a PT-23 in the albums but it has a cowling on it. Early production or prototype? Prop and exhaust looks different also.

'

' Tony, it almost looks like an odd "c/General Motors Research"....Could it be?
 
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:15:44 -0700
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: A PT What?

  Steve,
You have found something special there.  When I first read your posting I expected you had found an M-62B pic, however it is even more unusual than that.  I can identify the actual machine but not it's engine or who was responsible for the modifications.   The partial serial no. on the fin and rudder "33 605" is the clue.  I believe there is a hidden "1" between the 3 and 6 which would make it PT-19A-AE, s/no. 43-31605.  The USAAF markings make it unlikely to be an M-62B.  To the best of my knowledge the Army never even trialled the M-62B, it was civil and export model.   I have looked at the US history card for 43-31605 and it contains some very unusual entries.  The aircraft comes from a batch of Aeronca-built PT-19As - no mention of PT-23 on the card, nor clues as to an engine - except...   The destination is given as Detroit - and there were no AAF primary training schools near Detroit.  I am having trouble in deciphering the hand-written assignment entry but it appears to read "S..... Motor Research, Detroit, Mich". Accepted 3-29-44. Ferried from Middletown, OH, via Romulus, to Detroit, MI, arriving 4-4-44. To RFC at Camden 10-12-45.   I will try and capture an image of the Detroit entry with my camera and post it in the photo section.  I suspect it may mean more to someone in the U.S. than it does to me.   Incidentally, PT-19A-AE 43-31604 also had a rather unusual assignment - to the Ranger Aircraft Div., Farmingdale, N.Y.   The intrigue does not end there, 43-31605 is c/no 10434AE, which became NC55076.   Most of you experienced Fairchild types will know of D.D. Funk Aviation Company, Inc. Of Salina, KS, who in the nineteen-sixties converted twelve Fairchild PT airframes as agricultural aircraft.  Ten of these were given new registrations (N1125Z to N1134Z), one was sold to Guatemala, and one - presumably the prototype retained its original registration, N55076.     N55076 was suffered "substantial damage" in a accident in June 1964, but must have been repaired because it has recently received a new C of Reg.Cheers, Tony

---In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I just posted a pic that looks like a PT-23 in the albums but it has a cowling on it. Early production or prototype? Prop and exhaust looks different also.

'

'Steve,Yes, it could be.In which case you might like to look at this link:GMRL X-250 GMRL X-250 GMRL X-250 Cutaway on Display at the Henry Ford Museum (Robert F. Pauley Collection) GMRL X-250 Cutaway on Display at the Henry Ford Museum (Ro... View on www.enginehistory.org Preview by Yahoo
 

'

'Regarding subject PT photo, for certain, the picture was taken on the south ramp of General Motors flight department maintenance facility at the former Detroit City Airport. Judging by the quality of the cowl work, it is doubtful that the modification was done at the GM maintenance facility. The modification work was probably contracted to Aeronca and the ship delivered to GM in Detroit for acceptance and further disposition/flight testing. 
  "C" General Motors" on the file card may have stood for " In Custody of General Motors".
  HL

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 8:43 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Tony, it almost looks like an odd "c/General Motors Research"....Could it be?
 
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:15:44 -0700
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: A PT What?

  Steve,
You have found something special there.  When I first read your posting I expected you had found an M-62B pic, however it is even more unusual than that.  I can identify the actual machine but not it's engine or who was responsible for the modifications.   The partial serial no. on the fin and rudder "33 605" is the clue.  I believe there is a hidden "1" between the 3 and 6 which would make it PT-19A-AE, s/no. 43-31605.  The USAAF markings make it unlikely to be an M-62B.  To the best of my knowledge the Army never even trialled the M-62B, it was civil and export model.   I have looked at the US history card for 43-31605 and it contains some very unusual entries.  The aircraft comes from a batch of Aeronca-built PT-19As - no mention of PT-23 on the card, nor clues as to an engine - except...   The destination is given as Detroit - and there were no AAF primary training schools near Detroit.  I am having trouble in deciphering the hand-written assignment entry but it appears to read "S..... Motor Research, Detroit, Mich". Accepted 3-29-44. Ferried from Middletown, OH, via Romulus, to Detroit, MI, arriving 4-4-44. To RFC at Camden 10-12-45.   I will try and capture an image of the Detroit entry with my camera and post it in the photo section.  I suspect it may mean more to someone in the U.S. than it does to me.   Incidentally, PT-19A-AE 43-31604 also had a rather unusual assignment - to the Ranger Aircraft Div., Farmingdale, N.Y.   The intrigue does not end there, 43-31605 is c/no 10434AE, which became NC55076.   Most of you experienced Fairchild types will know of D.D. Funk Aviation Company, Inc. Of Salina, KS, who in the nineteen-sixties converted twelve Fairchild PT airframes as agricultural aircraft.  Ten of these were given new registrations (N1125Z to N1134Z), one was sold to Guatemala, and one - presumably the prototype retained its original registration, N55076.     N55076 was suffered "substantial damage" in a accident in June 1964, but must have been repaired because it has recently received a new C of Reg.Cheers, Tony

---In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I just posted a pic that looks like a PT-23 in the albums but it has a cowling on it. Early production or prototype? Prop and exhaust looks different also.

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'

'Regarding the photo.  Am I goofy.  It looks like the #1 cylinder is not straight up.  It looks like a baffle reflection in the top center of the motor.Well the motor doesn't care I guess.  I could say something but it wouldn't be political correct.  Not enough 80 octane and too little good scotch. Bob

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 11:10 AM, "Hugh Loewenhardt hughc8c@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Regarding subject PT photo, for certain, the picture was taken on the south ramp of General Motors flight department maintenance facility at the former Detroit City Airport. Judging by the quality of the cowl work, it is doubtful that the modification was done at the GM maintenance facility. The modification work was probably contracted to Aeronca and the ship delivered to GM in Detroit for acceptance and further disposition/flight testing. 
  "C" General Motors" on the file card may have stood for " In Custody of General Motors".
  HL

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 8:43 AM, "Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Tony, it almost looks like an odd "c/General Motors Research"....Could it be?
 
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:15:44 -0700
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: A PT What?

  Steve,
You have found something special there.  When I first read your posting I expected you had found an M-62B pic, however it is even more unusual than that.  I can identify the actual machine but not it's engine or who was responsible for the modifications.   The partial serial no. on the fin and rudder "33 605" is the clue.  I believe there is a hidden "1" between the 3 and 6 which would make it PT-19A-AE, s/no. 43-31605.  The USAAF markings make it unlikely to be an M-62B.  To the best of my knowledge the Army never even trialled the M-62B, it was civil and export model.   I have looked at the US history card for 43-31605 and it contains some very unusual entries.  The aircraft comes from a batch of Aeronca-built PT-19As - no mention of PT-23 on the card, nor clues as to an engine - except...   The destination is given as Detroit - and there were no AAF primary training schools near Detroit.  I am having trouble in deciphering the hand-written assignment entry but it appears to read "S..... Motor Research, Detroit, Mich". Accepted 3-29-44. Ferried from Middletown, OH, via Romulus, to Detroit, MI, arriving 4-4-44. To RFC at Camden 10-12-45.   I will try and capture an image of the Detroit entry with my camera and post it in the photo section.  I suspect it may mean more to someone in the U.S. than it does to me.   Incidentally, PT-19A-AE 43-31604 also had a rather unusual assignment - to the Ranger Aircraft Div., Farmingdale, N.Y.   The intrigue does not end there, 43-31605 is c/no 10434AE, which became NC55076.   Most of you experienced Fairchild types will know of D.D. Funk Aviation Company, Inc. Of Salina, KS, who in the nineteen-sixties converted twelve Fairchild PT airframes as agricultural aircraft.  Ten of these were given new registrations (N1125Z to N1134Z), one was sold to Guatemala, and one - presumably the prototype retained its original registration, N55076.     N55076 was suffered "substantial damage" in a accident in June 1964, but must have been repaired because it has recently received a new C of Reg.Cheers, Tony

---In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I just posted a pic that looks like a PT-23 in the albums but it has a cowling on it. Early production or prototype? Prop and exhaust looks different also.



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'

'You are seeing it correctly. There are 4 siamesed cylinders and they are viewed in the mount as an X. 
As for the tail number this exerpt from the antique engine page sums it up:
"PT-19 Flight TestingMatCmd engineer W.D. Downs, who was in charge of testing the X-250, suggested that an X-250 be installed experimentally in a Fairchild PT-19 on 11 Nov 1943.According to W.D. Down's project notebook, PT-19B AC43-31065 was released on bailment contract W33-038-AC-2727 on 17 Jan 1944. However, when engine installation began in April, a PT-19A-AE (SN not mentioned) was used.Work began in Apr 1944 on installing X-250D SN 2 in a Fairchild PT-19A under contract W33-038-AC-2727 (12056). Nose and belly coolant radiator locations were studied, and the nose configuration with a 540 in² Clifford radiator was chosen. It was decided to use a thermostatic bypass valve in the coolant system instead of the moveable cowl flaps that had been used in the Cessna C-165. Once a basic configuration was chosen, engine mounting, induction system, exhaust system, and cowling were detailed. The aircraft was moved to Detroit City Airport on 24 Jul. Engine installation was complete by the 31 Jul except for the coolant radiator, which had been delayed due to unsatisfactory hole spacing on the header plates. The radiator was finally received on 27 Sep, installed and the installation tested on 28 Sep, and the aircraft inspected and test flown on 29 Sep. By 15 Oct, the aircraft had been flown about six hours and the engine ground run for another four hours. During this period, instruments were calibrated and overall operation checked. On 16 Oct, the aircraft was flown to the Fahlin Manufacturing Company at Columbia, Missouri where several propellers were tested. The aircraft returned to Detroit on 21 Oct, at which time the cowling was removed and cooling exit air paths modified to reduce oil temperature during full-throttle climbs. The engine was inspected, a cracked exhaust collector ring repaired, and the engine reinstalled on 30 Oct. [XR-250 Tests] No further information GMRL XR-250 flight tests was available to the author."
'

'Hi tomatotruck993As a collector of Fairchild PT and Argus historical data I would like to say very many thanks for posting the extract from W.D. Downs project logbook.  I had no idea of this PT-19 engine test bed until Steve posted the photograph and so your information is absolute gold.Tony Broadhurst'