Fairchild Club Forum

'Hi,

I’m looking for someone that knows his or her way around the Ranger engines type: 6-410B-2A 165HP 6 cylinder in-line engines.
We operate an Fairchild 24R9 with a 6-410B-2A engine.
As far as I can remember, we had troubles with engine performance, so after a while, they called me to take a closer look in relation with the poor engine performance.
I quickly find out that the 6-410B-2A data plate on the engine, had different valve opening and closing settings that did not make any sense if I took a good look in the overhaul books I have.

I than found out that I have an camshaft installed that cooperated with the data in the overhaul manual. Basically, the 6-410B-2 & -3 engines have a valve opening cycle bigger that previous types.
So my question here is where is the missing link regarding my data plate on the engine telling me a whole other story?
Can someone share some light on this?

My data plate on the engine tells me:
Inlet opens 3deg. Early / closes 51deg. Late
Exhaust opens 55deg. Early / closes 20deg. Late
Intake remains open: 234 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 255 deg.



The overhaul manual tells me:
Inlet opens 15deg. Before TDC / closes 65deg. After BDC
Exhaust opens 70deg. Before BDC / closes 30deg. After BDC
Intake remains open: 260 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 280 deg.


Eventually I developed tooling to adjust the camshaft on the Ranger engine. With laser guiding I was able to adjust it to within halve of a degree i.a.w. information in the overhaul manual.
But poor engine performance still remains.

Any idea’s or shared experiences?
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Melvin Joseph
'

'Ck with Joe Denest,  6103997028. Maybe all 440's covert to 175 & 200 with piston/valve change(new timing paramiters too
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 12:06To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comReply To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comSubject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 6-410B-2A performance issue
 
Hi,

I’m looking for someone that knows his or her way around the Ranger engines type: 6-410B-2A 165HP 6 cylinder in-line engines.
We operate an Fairchild 24R9 with a 6-410B-2A engine.
As far as I can remember, we had troubles with engine performance, so after a while, they called me to take a closer look in relation with the poor engine performance.
I quickly find out that the 6-410B-2A data plate on the engine, had different valve opening and closing settings that did not make any sense if I took a good look in the overhaul books I have.

I than found out that I have an camshaft installed that cooperated with the data in the overhaul manual. Basically, the 6-410B-2 & -3 engines have a valve opening cycle bigger that previous types.
So my question here is where is the missing link regarding my data plate on the engine telling me a whole other story?
Can someone share some light on this?

My data plate on the engine tells me:
Inlet opens 3deg. Early / closes 51deg. Late
Exhaust opens 55deg. Early / closes 20deg. Late
Intake remains open: 234 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 255 deg.



The overhaul manual tells me:
Inlet opens 15deg. Before TDC / closes 65deg. After BDC
Exhaust opens 70deg. Before BDC / closes 30deg. After BDC
Intake remains open: 260 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 280 deg.


Eventually I developed tooling to adjust the camshaft on the Ranger engine. With laser guiding I was able to adjust it to within halve of a degree i.a.w. information in the overhaul manual.
But poor engine performance still remains.

Any idea’s or shared experiences?
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Melvin Joseph


'

'The 6-440 and 6-410 are two totally different engines. 6-410 cylinder diameters are 4.00 inches while the 6-440 is 4.125 inch. I don't have the 6-440 manual handy but the intake cam timing varies between the 175 and 200hp models.
Are you sure you have the correct cam installed?  You said nothing about magneto timing. Having the spark retarted or advanced from optimum will affect performance. 
Mike Denest

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2016, at 19:34, gtg15751@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
Ck with Joe Denest,  6103997028. Maybe all 440's covert to 175 & 200 with piston/valve change(new timing paramiters too
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 12:06To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comReply To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comSubject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 6-410B-2A performance issue
 
Hi,

I’m looking for someone that knows his or her way around the Ranger engines type: 6-410B-2A 165HP 6 cylinder in-line engines.
We operate an Fairchild 24R9 with a 6-410B-2A engine.
As far as I can remember, we had troubles with engine performance, so after a while, they called me to take a closer look in relation with the poor engine performance.
I quickly find out that the 6-410B-2A data plate on the engine, had different valve opening and closing settings that did not make any sense if I took a good look in the overhaul books I have.

I than found out that I have an camshaft installed that cooperated with the data in the overhaul manual. Basically, the 6-410B-2 & -3 engines have a valve opening cycle bigger that previous types.
So my question here is where is the missing link regarding my data plate on the engine telling me a whole other story?
Can someone share some light on this?

My data plate on the engine tells me:
Inlet opens 3deg. Early / closes 51deg. Late
Exhaust opens 55deg. Early / closes 20deg. Late
Intake remains open: 234 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 255 deg.



The overhaul manual tells me:
Inlet opens 15deg. Before TDC / closes 65deg. After BDC
Exhaust opens 70deg. Before BDC / closes 30deg. After BDC
Intake remains open: 260 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 280 deg.


Eventually I developed tooling to adjust the camshaft on the Ranger engine. With laser guiding I was able to adjust it to within halve of a degree i.a.w. information in the overhaul manual.
But poor engine performance still remains.

Any idea’s or shared experiences?
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Melvin Joseph



'

'Looking for a Warner 8 bolt hub for a Ranger PT-19. I believe the number
is #7900. It looks like the one in the Fairchild parts catalog.

The one that came with the project has been chrome-plated which I
believe renders it not-airworthy. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

David McCord
Chico Ranchaero Airport
530-743-0900



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus'

'We have the 165HP version,
We checked timing and all other issue's / components that could relate to the performance of the engine.But I am sure about the camshaft settings versus the manual, and the camshaft installed in the engine, but not on my data plate of the engine, it tells me a whole other story.
I have a picture of the data plate, which does not make any sense to me or relate to the information of the overhaul manual.
    

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:08 AM, "Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  The 6-440 and 6-410 are two totally different engines. 6-410 cylinder diameters are 4.00 inches while the 6-440 is 4.125 inch. I don't have the 6-440 manual handy but the intake cam timing varies between the 175 and 200hp models.
Are you sure you have the correct cam installed?  You said nothing about magneto timing. Having the spark retarted or advanced from optimum will affect performance. 
Mike Denest

Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2016, at 19:34, gtg15751@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

  Ck with Joe Denest,  6103997028. Maybe all 440's covert to 175 & 200 with piston/valve change(new timing paramiters too
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 12:06To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comReply To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comSubject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 6-410B-2A performance issue
  Hi,

I’m looking for someone that knows his or her way around the Ranger engines type: 6-410B-2A 165HP 6 cylinder in-line engines.
We operate an Fairchild 24R9 with a 6-410B-2A engine.
As far as I can remember, we had troubles with engine performance, so after a while, they called me to take a closer look in relation with the poor engine performance.
I quickly find out that the 6-410B-2A data plate on the engine, had different valve opening and closing settings that did not make any sense if I took a good look in the overhaul books I have.

I than found out that I have an camshaft installed that cooperated with the data in the overhaul manual. Basically, the 6-410B-2 & -3 engines have a valve opening cycle bigger that previous types.
So my question here is where is the missing link regarding my data plate on the engine telling me a whole other story?
Can someone share some light on this?

My data plate on the engine tells me:
Inlet opens 3deg. Early / closes 51deg. Late
Exhaust opens 55deg. Early / closes 20deg. Late
Intake remains open: 234 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 255 deg.



The overhaul manual tells me:
Inlet opens 15deg. Before TDC / closes 65deg. After BDC
Exhaust opens 70deg. Before BDC / closes 30deg. After BDC
Intake remains open: 260 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 280 deg.


Eventually I developed tooling to adjust the camshaft on the Ranger engine. With laser guiding I was able to adjust it to within halve of a degree i.a.w. information in the overhaul manual.
But poor engine performance still remains.

Any idea’s or shared experiences?
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Melvin Joseph

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'

'Ok, does the manual state static ground RPM?  The 6-440 turns 1960 rpm's with an 86R61 prop.  What is your prop diameter and pitch? 

I have a copy of the CAA ATC 187 document which quotes ignition timing at 30 degrees BTC while the -B3 engine is timed at 25 degrees BTC.  Can you send me the picture of your data plate?  Don't attach it here as attachments are blocked.  Send it to mjd12k@yahoo.com.
Specification A-706 for the F24R-9 allows a prop diameter up to 106 inches with the Ranger 6-410-B1, -B1A, -B2, -B2A or -B2B engine.  The -B3 engine is installed on the F24R-40.  The prop diameter is limited to an 86R58 prop.
 Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
         - Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 6:19 PM, "Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  We have the 165HP version,
We checked timing and all other issue's / components that could relate to the performance of the engine.But I am sure about the camshaft settings versus the manual, and the camshaft installed in the engine, but not on my data plate of the engine, it tells me a whole other story.
I have a picture of the data plate, which does not make any sense to me or relate to the information of the overhaul manual.
    

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:08 AM, "Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  The 6-440 and 6-410 are two totally different engines. 6-410 cylinder diameters are 4.00 inches while the 6-440 is 4.125 inch. I don't have the 6-440 manual handy but the intake cam timing varies between the 175 and 200hp models.
Are you sure you have the correct cam installed?  You said nothing about magneto timing. Having the spark retarted or advanced from optimum will affect performance. 
Mike Denest

Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2016, at 19:34, gtg15751@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

  Ck with Joe Denest,  6103997028. Maybe all 440's covert to 175 & 200 with piston/valve change(new timing paramiters too
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 12:06To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comReply To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comSubject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 6-410B-2A performance issue
  Hi,

I’m looking for someone that knows his or her way around the Ranger engines type: 6-410B-2A 165HP 6 cylinder in-line engines.
We operate an Fairchild 24R9 with a 6-410B-2A engine.
As far as I can remember, we had troubles with engine performance, so after a while, they called me to take a closer look in relation with the poor engine performance.
I quickly find out that the 6-410B-2A data plate on the engine, had different valve opening and closing settings that did not make any sense if I took a good look in the overhaul books I have.

I than found out that I have an camshaft installed that cooperated with the data in the overhaul manual. Basically, the 6-410B-2 & -3 engines have a valve opening cycle bigger that previous types.
So my question here is where is the missing link regarding my data plate on the engine telling me a whole other story?
Can someone share some light on this?

My data plate on the engine tells me:
Inlet opens 3deg. Early / closes 51deg. Late
Exhaust opens 55deg. Early / closes 20deg. Late
Intake remains open: 234 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 255 deg.



The overhaul manual tells me:
Inlet opens 15deg. Before TDC / closes 65deg. After BDC
Exhaust opens 70deg. Before BDC / closes 30deg. After BDC
Intake remains open: 260 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 280 deg.


Eventually I developed tooling to adjust the camshaft on the Ranger engine. With laser guiding I was able to adjust it to within halve of a degree i.a.w. information in the overhaul manual.
But poor engine performance still remains.

Any idea’s or shared experiences?
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Melvin Joseph

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'

'Did some quick research - all 6-410 models use 4.125" bore diameter by 5.125 " stroke cylinders while the 6-440 is a 4.125" bore and 5.50" stroke.  I was thinking of the 6-390 which is a 4.00" diameter.
Just curious, have you measured the stroke? 
 Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
         - Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 8:54 PM, "Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Ok, does the manual state static ground RPM?  The 6-440 turns 1960 rpm's with an 86R61 prop.  What is your prop diameter and pitch? 

I have a copy of the CAA ATC 187 document which quotes ignition timing at 30 degrees BTC while the -B3 engine is timed at 25 degrees BTC.  Can you send me the picture of your data plate?  Don't attach it here as attachments are blocked.  Send it to mjd12k@yahoo.com.
Specification A-706 for the F24R-9 allows a prop diameter up to 106 inches with the Ranger 6-410-B1, -B1A, -B2, -B2A or -B2B engine.  The -B3 engine is installed on the F24R-40.  The prop diameter is limited to an 86R58 prop.
 Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
         - Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 6:19 PM, "Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  We have the 165HP version,
We checked timing and all other issue's / components that could relate to the performance of the engine.But I am sure about the camshaft settings versus the manual, and the camshaft installed in the engine, but not on my data plate of the engine, it tells me a whole other story.
I have a picture of the data plate, which does not make any sense to me or relate to the information of the overhaul manual.
    

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:08 AM, "Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  The 6-440 and 6-410 are two totally different engines. 6-410 cylinder diameters are 4.00 inches while the 6-440 is 4.125 inch. I don't have the 6-440 manual handy but the intake cam timing varies between the 175 and 200hp models.
Are you sure you have the correct cam installed?  You said nothing about magneto timing. Having the spark retarted or advanced from optimum will affect performance. 
Mike Denest

Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2016, at 19:34, gtg15751@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

  Ck with Joe Denest,  6103997028. Maybe all 440's covert to 175 & 200 with piston/valve change(new timing paramiters too
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 12:06To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comReply To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comSubject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 6-410B-2A performance issue
  Hi,

I’m looking for someone that knows his or her way around the Ranger engines type: 6-410B-2A 165HP 6 cylinder in-line engines.
We operate an Fairchild 24R9 with a 6-410B-2A engine.
As far as I can remember, we had troubles with engine performance, so after a while, they called me to take a closer look in relation with the poor engine performance.
I quickly find out that the 6-410B-2A data plate on the engine, had different valve opening and closing settings that did not make any sense if I took a good look in the overhaul books I have.

I than found out that I have an camshaft installed that cooperated with the data in the overhaul manual. Basically, the 6-410B-2 & -3 engines have a valve opening cycle bigger that previous types.
So my question here is where is the missing link regarding my data plate on the engine telling me a whole other story?
Can someone share some light on this?

My data plate on the engine tells me:
Inlet opens 3deg. Early / closes 51deg. Late
Exhaust opens 55deg. Early / closes 20deg. Late
Intake remains open: 234 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 255 deg.



The overhaul manual tells me:
Inlet opens 15deg. Before TDC / closes 65deg. After BDC
Exhaust opens 70deg. Before BDC / closes 30deg. After BDC
Intake remains open: 260 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 280 deg.


Eventually I developed tooling to adjust the camshaft on the Ranger engine. With laser guiding I was able to adjust it to within halve of a degree i.a.w. information in the overhaul manual.
But poor engine performance still remains.

Any idea’s or shared experiences?
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Melvin Joseph

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'

'Another question - what overhaul manual are you using?
 Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
         - Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 11:28 AM, "Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Did some quick research - all 6-410 models use 4.125" bore diameter by 5.125 " stroke cylinders while the 6-440 is a 4.125" bore and 5.50" stroke.  I was thinking of the 6-390 which is a 4.00" diameter.
Just curious, have you measured the stroke? 
 Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
         - Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 8:54 PM, "Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  Ok, does the manual state static ground RPM?  The 6-440 turns 1960 rpm's with an 86R61 prop.  What is your prop diameter and pitch? 

I have a copy of the CAA ATC 187 document which quotes ignition timing at 30 degrees BTC while the -B3 engine is timed at 25 degrees BTC.  Can you send me the picture of your data plate?  Don't attach it here as attachments are blocked.  Send it to mjd12k@yahoo.com.
Specification A-706 for the F24R-9 allows a prop diameter up to 106 inches with the Ranger 6-410-B1, -B1A, -B2, -B2A or -B2B engine.  The -B3 engine is installed on the F24R-40.  The prop diameter is limited to an 86R58 prop.
 Mike Denest
"He's crazy Lew, he builds toy airplanes!"
         - Frank Towns Flight of the Phoenix

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 6:19 PM, "Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  We have the 165HP version,
We checked timing and all other issue's / components that could relate to the performance of the engine.But I am sure about the camshaft settings versus the manual, and the camshaft installed in the engine, but not on my data plate of the engine, it tells me a whole other story.
I have a picture of the data plate, which does not make any sense to me or relate to the information of the overhaul manual.
    

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:08 AM, "Michael Denest mjd12k@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]" wrote:


  The 6-440 and 6-410 are two totally different engines. 6-410 cylinder diameters are 4.00 inches while the 6-440 is 4.125 inch. I don't have the 6-440 manual handy but the intake cam timing varies between the 175 and 200hp models.
Are you sure you have the correct cam installed?  You said nothing about magneto timing. Having the spark retarted or advanced from optimum will affect performance. 
Mike Denest

Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2016, at 19:34, gtg15751@yahoo.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

  Ck with Joe Denest,  6103997028. Maybe all 440's covert to 175 & 200 with piston/valve change(new timing paramiters too
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Melvin J melvin_j86@yahoo.com [fairchildclub]Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 12:06To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comReply To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.comSubject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 6-410B-2A performance issue
  Hi,

I’m looking for someone that knows his or her way around the Ranger engines type: 6-410B-2A 165HP 6 cylinder in-line engines.
We operate an Fairchild 24R9 with a 6-410B-2A engine.
As far as I can remember, we had troubles with engine performance, so after a while, they called me to take a closer look in relation with the poor engine performance.
I quickly find out that the 6-410B-2A data plate on the engine, had different valve opening and closing settings that did not make any sense if I took a good look in the overhaul books I have.

I than found out that I have an camshaft installed that cooperated with the data in the overhaul manual. Basically, the 6-410B-2 & -3 engines have a valve opening cycle bigger that previous types.
So my question here is where is the missing link regarding my data plate on the engine telling me a whole other story?
Can someone share some light on this?

My data plate on the engine tells me:
Inlet opens 3deg. Early / closes 51deg. Late
Exhaust opens 55deg. Early / closes 20deg. Late
Intake remains open: 234 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 255 deg.



The overhaul manual tells me:
Inlet opens 15deg. Before TDC / closes 65deg. After BDC
Exhaust opens 70deg. Before BDC / closes 30deg. After BDC
Intake remains open: 260 deg.
Exhaust remains open: 280 deg.


Eventually I developed tooling to adjust the camshaft on the Ranger engine. With laser guiding I was able to adjust it to within halve of a degree i.a.w. information in the overhaul manual.
But poor engine performance still remains.

Any idea’s or shared experiences?
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Melvin Joseph

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'

'Hi Mike Denest or orther reader,
I am working also on the same Fairchild as Melvin.We just did a engine test and the max throttle rpm is 1910 indicated with de 6-410 B2A,
Could you(Mike Denest) or some else say,:what the maximum static rpm is for the Ranger 6-410 B2A?
With kind regards,Steije

'

'Sounds about right.  6-440 gets 1960 static so you should be ok.  From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:59 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Ranger 6-410B-2A performance issue   
Hi Mike Denest or orther reader,  I am working also on the same Fairchild as Melvin.We just did a engine test and the max throttle rpm is 1910 indicated with de 6-410 B2A,  Could you(Mike Denest) or some else say,:what the maximum static rpm is for the Ranger 6-410 B2A?  With kind regards,Steije  '