Fairchild Club Forum

'We have a Ranger engine in a PT-19 that has always used more oil than it should.  Recently though it has spiked to an abnormally high amount.  At least one gallon of oil per hour.  We have seen lots of oil coming out of the breather tube behind the exhaust and wonder if there are thoughts out there as to what might be the problem.  Can the breather assembly fail in some manner?  Dan  '

'Very likely rings.  Stuck, broken or worn.   What's the compression like?

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:58 AM, 'Dan Summerall' dsummerall@gmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:
 
We have a Ranger engine in a PT-19 that has always used more oil than it should.  Recently though it has spiked to an abnormally high amount.  At least one gallon of oil per hour.  We have seen lots of oil coming out of the breather tube behind the exhaust and wonder if there are thoughts out there as to what might be the problem.  Can the breather assembly fail in some manner? Dan 

--
Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com '

'The compression is good. We did have one that had some blow-by on the recent annual, but after running and a little Mystery Oil it came up. All readings are 70+.



From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 11:26 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Oil consumption on Ranger engine





Very likely rings. Stuck, broken or worn. What's the compression like?

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:58 AM, 'Dan Summerall' dsummerall@gmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:



We have a Ranger engine in a PT-19 that has always used more oil than it should. Recently though it has spiked to an abnormally high amount. At least one gallon of oil per hour. We have seen lots of oil coming out of the breather tube behind the exhaust and wonder if there are thoughts out there as to what might be the problem. Can the breather assembly fail in some manner?



Dan






--

Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

'







I have to agree with the rings as a strong culprit. It sounds like your oil scraper ring and probably one or two of the lower compression rings is broken allowing compression air to slightly pressurize the crankcase.
Increased oil coming out of the breather is usually pushed out.
Did you hear any air coming from the oil fill tube when you did a compression check?

Joe

 


From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:36 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Oil consumption on Ranger engine


 
 



The compression is good. We did have one that had some blow-by on the recent annual, but after running and a little Mystery Oil it came up. All readings are 70+.


From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 11:26 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Oil consumption on Ranger engine

Very likely rings. Stuck, broken or worn. What's the compression like?

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:58 AM, 'Dan Summerall' dsummerall@gmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

We have a Ranger engine in a PT-19 that has always used more oil than it should. Recently though it has spiked to an abnormally high amount. At least one gallon of oil per hour. We have seen lots of oil coming out of the breather tube behind the exhaust and
wonder if there are thoughts out there as to what might be the problem. Can the breather assembly fail in some manner?

Dan

--

Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






'

'
Dan,

Here are some excerpts from previous posts on a similar subject.  Some thought it was a scavenge pump problem and another had worn valve guides.  I'm just parroting what I read as I am certainly not a mechanic.
Perhaps Cy Galley will log in.
Steve b.

" 3.5 years and 500 hours-my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minutes and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer than the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
 

How fast do you turn the engine?  I'll recommend not to run faster than 1900/1950rpm at cruise, for first flights and even later.. (depending on your props).

Was your scavenge pump OK?

are your exhausts pipes "greasy" somehow?  Airy
 Rings haven't seated. Might take up to 50 hours. If you have a worry after
about 10 hours, do a compression check to see which cylinder is bad. As for
now, probably all cylinders have excessive blow by. 

If you have a CHT gage, when the rings seat, the Cylinder Head Temperature will show a marked drop in
temperature.  Do you have a scavenge pump and is it turning?  Cy Galley

When I bought the plane It used a lot like yours and I lived with it for a
while. I checked the rpm (using a model aircraft tach) and gauge rpm there was a difference!!!!

I thought I was setting to odd but the actual was much higher........... as soon as I bought the rpm back to the book figure the consumption reduced
...................... but it was still blowing it out the breather at anything
from 3 to 6 litres a hour.................... not good for touring.  This winter I have performed a proper top end overhaul and and changed the valve guides as they were badly worn............. the piston rings and the usual
de-glazing of the cylinders and the difference is amazing.............. I can't remember when I last put oil in her.

When I first bought her she was meant to have had a top end overhaul but they obviously hadn’t done the valve guides... as they were very worn.  The strange thing was the compressions were ok?
I am sure the guys will have an answer for you but this turned out to be my particular problem others I am sure will have other solutions.

'

'First and foremost, do NOT fill the tank.  Regardless of when you add oil, there is always some oil hiding in the engine.  I have watched this phenomenon for years.  First someone fills the tank completely, after the airplane has been sitting.  In this case there may be several GALLONS that have drained down into the engine.  Filling the tank completely puts way too much oil in the system.  When you fire up and go fly, the oil has nowhere to go, so it blows out the breather.  The conclusion is that the "engine is using way too much oil, and oh, boy, we better fill it up to the top to get home.”  (or whatever)  Then, of course, the oil has nowhere to go (again) and it blows out the breather, again.  Pretty soon people conclude that “those old Rangers are Oil Burners.”  
So, before you go any further, you must first establish the PROPER servicing regimen.  The time to check the oil on all these old airplanes is RIGHT AFTER SHUTDOWN.  Then, and only then, service the tank, BUT NEVER EVER FILL IT.  Service the tank until you can just reach the oil with your pinky, if you have no other way to measure it,   AND NOT MORE.  Some of the tanks have a little service mark on the BACK of the tank, visible only with a flashlight thru the filler neck, and it is a surprisingly long way down from the top of the tank.  That much space is required for the foaming of the hot oil as it returns to the tank.  If we erringly fill that space with oil, the engine, once warmed up,  will blow oil  out the breather every time… and theres NOTHING WRONG with the engine, other than its just been over-serviced  (that’s what the breather is for)
OR, you may have really bad rings in one or more cylinders, allowing the compression to "blow by" and over pressurize the crankcase.  (do a compression test)
OR, you may have “holed” a piston, again pressurizing the crankcase, but in this case oil would come out the exhaust as well, usually in really smokey announcement of the problem, and the engine will almost always run rough...(do a compression test)
How does the engine run?  If it has had no change in power or smoothness, I’m betting the tank has just been over serviced.  
How is the oil pressure?  Better, worse or the same as before the “spike”
hope this helps…
Jeff W

On Jun 9, 2015, at 6:58 AM, 'Dan Summerall' dsummerall@gmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

We have a Ranger engine in a PT-19 that has always used more oil than it should.  Recently though it has spiked to an abnormally high amount.  At least one gallon of oil per hour.  We have seen lots of oil coming out of the breather tube behind the exhaust and wonder if there are thoughts out there as to what might be the problem.  Can the breather assembly fail in some manner?  Dan  

'

'The solution is very simple.  If you are using that much oil, you need an overhaul.  Did you do the compression test cold or hot?  How many hours are on the engine?  It's time to find a replacement.
Mike Denest

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 9, 2015, at 19:52, Jeffrey Whitesell topfun@fivetogether.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

 
First and foremost, do NOT fill the tank.  Regardless of when you add oil, there is always some oil hiding in the engine.  I have watched this phenomenon for years.  First someone fills the tank completely, after the airplane has been sitting.  In this case there may be several GALLONS that have drained down into the engine.  Filling the tank completely puts way too much oil in the system.  When you fire up and go fly, the oil has nowhere to go, so it blows out the breather.  The conclusion is that the "engine is using way too much oil, and oh, boy, we better fill it up to the top to get home.”  (or whatever)  Then, of course, the oil has nowhere to go (again) and it blows out the breather, again.  Pretty soon people conclude that “those old Rangers are Oil Burners.”  
So, before you go any further, you must first establish the PROPER servicing regimen.  The time to check the oil on all these old airplanes is RIGHT AFTER SHUTDOWN.  Then, and only then, service the tank, BUT NEVER EVER FILL IT.  Service the tank until you can just reach the oil with your pinky, if you have no other way to measure it,   AND NOT MORE.  Some of the tanks have a little service mark on the BACK of the tank, visible only with a flashlight thru the filler neck, and it is a surprisingly long way down from the top of the tank.  That much space is required for the foaming of the hot oil as it returns to the tank.  If we erringly fill that space with oil, the engine, once warmed up,  will blow oil  out the breather every time… and theres NOTHING WRONG with the engine, other than its just been over-serviced  (that’s what the breather is for)
OR, you may have really bad rings in one or more cylinders, allowing the compression to "blow by" and over pressurize the crankcase.  (do a compression test)
OR, you may have “holed” a piston, again pressurizing the crankcase, but in this case oil would come out the exhaust as well, usually in really smokey announcement of the problem, and the engine will almost always run rough...(do a compression test)
How does the engine run?  If it has had no change in power or smoothness, I’m betting the tank has just been over serviced.  
How is the oil pressure?  Better, worse or the same as before the “spike”
hope this helps…
Jeff W

On Jun 9, 2015, at 6:58 AM, 'Dan Summerall' dsummerall@gmail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

We have a Ranger engine in a PT-19 that has always used more oil than it should.  Recently though it has spiked to an abnormally high amount.  At least one gallon of oil per hour.  We have seen lots of oil coming out of the breather tube behind the exhaust and wonder if there are thoughts out there as to what might be the problem.  Can the breather assembly fail in some manner?  Dan  


'

'Knowing very little about the Engine other than it is an inverted 6, I think Steve has it right on.  If  it  has a scavenge pump; it may not be working or badly worn. The ranger is a notorious oil burner.  I don't feel worn guides are guilty but if the scavenge pump is not working, the pressure from the guides or unseated rings will blow oil out of any engine. Is it possible that the pump was not correctly assembled? Are the plugs real oily?  Remember, I really don't know much about a Ranger, But most engines work the same.  Cy Galley - Chairman of Emergency Aircraft RepairA service project of EAA Chapter 75      From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 4:44 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Oil consumption on Ranger engine   
Dan,
 
Here are some excerpts from previous posts on a similar subject.  Some thought it was a scavenge pump problem and another had worn valve guides.  I'm just parroting what I read as I am certainly not a mechanic.
Perhaps Cy Galley will log in.
Steve b.
 
" 3.5 years and 500 hours-my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minutes and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer than the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
 
 How fast do you turn the engine?  I'll recommend not to run faster than 1900/1950rpm at cruise, for first flights and even later.. (depending on your props).
 Was your scavenge pump OK?
 are your exhausts pipes "greasy" somehow?  Airy
 Rings haven't seated. Might take up to 50 hours. If you have a worry after
about 10 hours, do a compression check to see which cylinder is bad. As for
now, probably all cylinders have excessive blow by. 
 If you have a CHT gage, when the rings seat, the Cylinder Head Temperature will show a marked drop in
temperature.  Do you have a scavenge pump and is it turning?  Cy Galley
 When I bought the plane It used a lot like yours and I lived with it for a
while. I checked the rpm (using a model aircraft tach) and gauge rpm there was a difference!!!!
 I thought I was setting to odd but the actual was much higher........... as soon as I bought the rpm back to the book figure the consumption reduced
...................... but it was still blowing it out the breather at anything
from 3 to 6 litres a hour.................... not good for touring.  This winter I have performed a proper top end overhaul and and changed the valve guides as they were badly worn............. the piston rings and the usual
de-glazing of the cylinders and the difference is amazing.............. I can't remember when I last put oil in her.
 When I first bought her she was meant to have had a top end overhaul but they obviously hadn’t done the valve guides... as they were very worn.  The strange thing was the compressions were ok?
I am sure the guys will have an answer for you but this turned out to be my particular problem others I am sure will have other solutions.
 '

' Is there a thermostat in the system? It could be stuck closed.   John   In a message dated 6/9/2015 3:44:29 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com writes:

Dan,


Here are some excerpts from previous posts on a similar subject.  Some thought it was a scavenge pump problem and another had worn valve guides.  I'm just parroting what I read as I am certainly not a mechanic.
Perhaps Cy Galley will log in.
Steve b.


" 3.5 years and 500 hours-my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minutes and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer than the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
 

How fast do you turn the engine?  I'll recommend not to run faster than 1900/1950rpm at cruise, for first flights and even later.. (depending on your props).

Was your scavenge pump OK?

are your exhausts pipes "greasy" somehow?  Airy
  Rings haven't seated. Might take up to 50 hours. If you have a worry after
about 10 hours, do a compression check to see which cylinder is bad. As for
now, probably all cylinders have excessive blow by. 

If you have a CHT gage, when the rings seat, the Cylinder Head Temperature will show a marked drop in
temperature.  Do you have a scavenge pump and is it turning?  Cy Galley

When I bought the plane It used a lot like yours and I lived with it for a
while. I checked the rpm (using a model aircraft tach) and gauge rpm there was a difference!!!!

I thought I was setting to odd but the actual was much higher........... as soon as I bought the rpm back to the book figure the consumption reduced
...................... but it was still blowing it out the breather at anything
from 3 to 6 litres a hour.................... not good for touring.  This winter I have performed a proper top end overhaul and and changed the valve guides as they were badly worn............. the piston rings and the usual
de-glazing of the cylinders and the difference is amazing.............. I can't remember when I last put oil in her.

When I first bought her she was meant to have had a top end overhaul but they obviously hadn’t done the valve guides... as they were very worn.  The strange thing was the compressions were ok?
I am sure the guys will have an answer for you but this turned out to be my particular problem others I am sure will have other solutions.

'

' 1 gallon = overhaule to be done
broken piston rings and low compression may show the need of new parts!
 
Airy
 
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 08:58:51 -0500
Subject: [fairchildclub] Oil consumption on Ranger engine

  We have a Ranger engine in a PT-19 that has always used more oil than it should.  Recently though it has spiked to an abnormally high amount.  At least one gallon of oil per hour.  We have seen lots of oil coming out of the breather tube behind the exhaust and wonder if there are thoughts out there as to what might be the problem.  Can the breather assembly fail in some manner?
 Dan 
'