Fairchild Club Forum

'We are working on an early model staggerwing with the same hayes wheels and brakes that are on many fairchilds.  Do any of you have experience with installing the cessna 310 wheels and brakes and utilizing the original master cylinders?  I am specifically looking for a 337 that shows the braking energy available with te new brakes, and old master cylinders.

Thank you,
Josh'

'Josh, Springer Aerospace has Redline brake kits for the Staggerwing series. Redline brake kits consist of Cleveland parts engineered by Springer for each application. Not sure, but perhaps the kits can be obtained without the master cylinder. Vintage airplanes have been put on their noses with Cessna 310 wheels because of excessive braking power. Best to leave brake engineering to the experts.

On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:16 PM, "mtnbound@gmail.com" wrote:
  We are working on an early model staggerwing with the same hayes wheels and brakes that are on many fairchilds.  Do any of you have experience with installing the cessna 310 wheels and brakes and utilizing the original master cylinders?  I am specifically looking for a 337 that shows the braking energy available with te new brakes, and old master cylinders.
Thank you,
Josh #ygrps-yiv-1147125755 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369 -- #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1147125755 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1147125755 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1147125755 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1147125755 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1147125755 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369 #ygrps-yiv-1147125755yiv3419070369ygrp-mkp 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'

'Josh,



Most of the F-24 Cleveland conversions are using the old Auto masters. (Rebuild Kit MK32). They work fine. I have flown myself. Plenty of braking power. They will stop a 32 Ply AutoJ No braking energy numbers. Be careful with the complete 310 setup. The Denver FSDO did not go with 310 setup, to much brake. They were right. One F-24 ended up on back. Some folks have left the center pad out for less braking.



Currently I am using Cessna 210 discs and calibers with 310 wheels. With the old masters, using Auto Syn Brake fluid. 5606 is hard on the old auto seals.



Using the same on Cabin Wacos, just finished up 4 FAA 337s with one time field. More in the hopper.



I have attached, FAA 337s for F-24, Wacos, Pics of setup, FAA 337 checklists, white papers. I have it all. You hit pay dirt manJ



If you have any questions at all, give me a call.



JST



Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Fairchild Club CD ROM Editor
IAC 5, Chapter President
http://iac5.org
Kelly Airpark (CO15) http://www.kellyairpark.com
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, CO 80106



Hm/Hgr 303-648-0130
Cell 303-304-7937



Quote of the Month: The Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you. - attributed to Max Stanley, Northrop test pilot









From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtnbound@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 12:16 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Cleveland conversion with original master cylinders





We are working on an early model staggerwing with the same hayes wheels and brakes that are on many fairchilds. Do any of you have experience with installing the cessna 310 wheels and brakes and utilizing the original master cylinders? I am specifically looking for a 337 that shows the braking energy available with te new brakes, and old master cylinders.



Thank you,



Josh





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

'I had a Staggerwing for ten years. Wish I still did. I did the Cleveland conversion, 310 brakes. I would not recommend using original master cylinders. The wheels, adapters, torque plate all bolt up as you expect they would. The brakes are powerful, but I did not feel excessively so, just be mindful. Best move I ever made, I had a lot of trouble with overheating brakes while taxiing in a crosswind, all gone with the Cleveland's. The Staggerwing Club had 337s for this job.
Bill McClure
PS- I worked on a Stearman with Redline brakes awhile ago, I sure liked that design.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 1, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Hugh Loewenhardt wrote:

 
Josh, Springer Aerospace has Redline brake kits for the Staggerwing series. Redline brake kits consist of Cleveland parts engineered by Springer for each application. Not sure, but perhaps the kits can be obtained without the master cylinder. Vintage airplanes have been put on their noses with Cessna 310 wheels because of excessive braking power. Best to leave brake engineering to the experts.

On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:16 PM, "mtnbound@gmail.com" wrote:
  We are working on an early model staggerwing with the same hayes wheels and brakes that are on many fairchilds.  Do any of you have experience with installing the cessna 310 wheels and brakes and utilizing the original master cylinders?  I am specifically looking for a 337 that shows the braking energy available with te new brakes, and old master cylinders.
Thank you,
Josh


'

'Josh, The original master cylinder used with the Hayes brakes are not compatable with Cleveland disc brakes, the braking force can be calculated as follows, the pressure applied to the master cylinder divided by the area equals PSI. PSI applied to the caliper multiplied by area equals the pressure, and dont forget to calculate the pressure applied to the master cylinder with the mechanical advantage of the belcranks or levers used to actuate it. But that is all useless, If installing the 310 wheels and brakes the original Fairchild master cylinders are not matched because they move too much brake fluid in order to inflate the expander tubes of the original brakes. Removing one of the brake pads is not the answer; this will only decreases the braking surface area at the disc, not the pressure, it also increases the temperature of the brake pads which before brake fade occurs can cause a grabby braking action. Selecting the proper master cylinder and possibly changing bell crank ratio to achieve the correct pressure is key to get the proper braking action. the FARs tell us the braking action should be sufficiant enough to prevent the aircraft wheels from rotating at full power. I used the brakes of the Staggerwing as the basis for the Cleveland installation on my Fairchild. Jim Higham N81207 F24R46A-108
From: Hugh Loewenhardt
To: "fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2014 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Cleveland conversion with original master cylinders
  Josh,  Springer Aerospace has Redline brake kits for the Staggerwing series. Redline brake kits consist of Cleveland parts engineered by Springer for each application. Not sure, but perhaps the kits can be obtained without the master cylinder. Vintage airplanes have been put on their noses with Cessna 310 wheels because of excessive braking power. Best to leave brake engineering to the experts. On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:16 PM, "mtnbound@gmail.com" wrote:
  We are working on an early model staggerwing with the same hayes wheels and brakes that are on many fairchilds.  Do any of you have experience with installing the cessna 310 wheels and brakes and utilizing the original master cylinders?  I am specifically looking for a 337 that shows the braking energy available with te new brakes, and old master cylinders.
Thank you,
Josh #ygrps-yiv-1333253689 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537 -- #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1333253689 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1333253689 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1333253689 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1333253689 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1333253689 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537 #ygrps-yiv-1333253689yiv9897796537ygrp-mkp 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Thank you all for your answers.  There have been many cleveland conversions on staggerwings, but very few of the early model airplanes are flying.  Our airplane has a gross weight that is over a thousand pounds less than the popular d series airplanes (3,100lbs).   I am going to take a good look at the size and shape of the original master cylinders to determine what they are capable of.  My biggest fear is actually having too much brake as the airplane is naturally nose heavy and would not benefit from massive brakes. 

Josh'