Fairchild Club Forum

----- Original Message -----


From: "Jeffrey Whitesell"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:39:19 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] enlighten me

 




Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:

I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I want to restore a Fairchild.

I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.

Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube structure?

One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks like it would take the Ranger engine.

Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with dynafocals...

any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated

Jeff Whitesell
topfun@fivetogether.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 20, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Jamie Treat wrote:

> Bill,
>
> Most of the the Short nose versions have been converted to 175 or 200 Rangers. The 390 is hard to support. Cyl parts from the V-770 will work.
>
> I always liked the small tail short nose with Gull wing cowl. Bob Haas had a beauty.
>
> As for the fuel. I have never had the metering pin stick on the larger Marvel or Stromberg carbs. Yes I have had them stick on the smaller carbs for the Cont series when equiped with SS metering pins and brass seats esp in cold weather.
>
> I have always shut the Ranger down with mixture. And have always shut the fuel off. Never an issue.
>
> Try using idle cut off and leave the fuel on for a few hours so. Check it within the cooling hour to see if it is leaking. If it leaks, it may be time to pull apart and clean the needle and seat. Tom did run autofuel in the bird at a 50/50 rate at times. It sat alot as you know. It could be coated with some varnish.
>
> JST
> From: "William Creighton"
> To: "Jamie Treat"
> Cc: topfun@fivetogether.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:17:54 PM
> Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] enlighten me
>
> Jamie, Jeff:
>
> Pretty sure the '39 Short-nose 24 that I considered buying in FL a few years ago had a Ranger 200 hp 440 in it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the Fairchild dimensions seemed better balanced on the short-nose, versus the long-nose like I have.
>
> Jamie, quick one. I've recently been suffering carb overflow during pre-flight when I open a fuel valve. First time I was able to solve it by stroking the throttle several times. Last weekend that approach didn't work, so I uncowled and rapped on the carb with a plastic srewdriver handle. Anyway, I'm wondering if my shutting off the fuel valve during shutdown, before pulling the mixture is emptying the carb bowl, and that's causing the float needle to not properly seat? Behavior is same regardless of which fuel valve is opened during pre-flight... FWIW, I pulled the mixture and let the engine quit last time out before shutting off the fuel valve.
>
> Regards,
> Bill C.
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> CC: topfun@fivetogether.com
> From: jamietreat@q.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:38:38 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] enlighten me
>
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Old A&P's need projects too:)
>
> I have never found any ID on the airframe structure. Only on the old Stearmans.
>
> Your correct on the perm mount, takes a Ranger, most likley was a 165HP (390).
>
> Ranger engine mounts for the F-24 series are hard to come by. The Club does have a Ranger engine mount jig. I keep track of it.
>
> The FC Club also have the DVD with plently of data to help you out.
>
> You can get it direct from me. Plently of help out there. Not much we can't fabricate.
>
> Don't hesitate to call.
>
> Jamie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Jeffrey Whitesell"
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:39:19 AM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] enlighten me
>
>
>
> Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:
>
> I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I want to restore a Fairchild.
>
> I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.
>
> Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube structure?
>
> One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks like it would take the Ranger engine.
>
> Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with dynafocals...
>
> any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated
>
> Jeff Whitesell
> topfun@fivetogether.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

---
Jeff Whitesell
topfun@fivetogether.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Treat"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] enlighten me




Jeff,



Old A&P's need projects too:)



I have never found any ID on the airframe structure. Only on the old
Stearmans.



Your correct on the perm mount, takes a Ranger, most likley was a 165HP
(390).



Ranger engine mounts for the F-24 series are hard to come by. The Club does
have a Ranger engine mount jig. I keep track of it.



The FC Club also have the DVD with plently of data to help you out.



You can get it direct from me. Plently of help out there. Not much we can't
fabricate.



Don't hesitate to call.



Jamie







----- Original Message -----


From: "Jeffrey Whitesell"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:39:19 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] enlighten me






Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:

I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I
want to restore a Fairchild.

I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no
records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.

Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube
structure?

One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks
like it would take the Ranger engine.

Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with
dynafocals...

any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated

Jeff Whitesell
topfun@fivetogether.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Treat"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] enlighten me

Jeff,

Old A&P's need projects too:)

I have never found any ID on the airframe structure. Only on the old
Stearmans.

Your correct on the perm mount, takes a Ranger, most likley was a 165HP
(390).

Ranger engine mounts for the F-24 series are hard to come by. The Club does
have a Ranger engine mount jig. I keep track of it.

The FC Club also have the DVD with plently of data to help you out.

You can get it direct from me. Plently of help out there. Not much we can't
fabricate.

Don't hesitate to call.

Jamie

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jeffrey Whitesell"
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:39:19 AM
Subject: [fairchildclub] enlighten me

Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:

I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I
want to restore a Fairchild.

I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no
records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.

Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube
structure?

One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks
like it would take the Ranger engine.

Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with
dynafocals...

any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated

Jeff Whitesell
topfun@fivetogether.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
>
> Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:
>
> I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I want to restore a Fairchild.
>
> I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.
>
> Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube structure?
>
> One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks like it would take the Ranger engine.
>
> Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with dynafocals...
>
> any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Whitesell
> topfun@...
>

On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Bob wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> Early Fairchild 24s (at least the ranger powered ones)had the engine mount integral to the frame. These are referred to as the 'short nosed' Rangers. The problem for the company, was that they had to know what engine they were going to mount on the airplane when they began building the fuselage. During the preparations for WWII, lots of Ranger engines were needed for the PT-19s and PT-26s, and there wouldn't always be a Ranger available for the 24.
>
> Starting with the 24-R model, Fairchild made a removable engine mount, allowing the factory to build a fuselage and later decide which engine to install. These aircraft are 11 inches longer than the earlier models, allowing the oil tank to be mounted on the firewall, and allowing the oil cooler to be moved up under the cowl, and requiring the battery to be moved to the tail. The removable mount increased the weight of the fuselage and the max gross weight was not changed, therefor the earlier 'short nosed' Fairchild 24s had a slightly greater 'useful load'.
>
> Good luck on your selection of a project and the restoration of another wonderful airplane.
>
> Bob Waldron
> Webster, MN
> 1939 Fairchild 24K "short nosed"
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
> >
> > Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:
> >
> > I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I want to restore a Fairchild.
> >
> > I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.
> >
> > Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube structure?
> >
> > One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks like it would take the Ranger engine.
> >
> > Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with dynafocals...
> >
> > any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeff Whitesell
> > topfun@...
> >
>
>

---
Jeff Whitesell
topfun@fivetogether.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
>
> Bob
>
> Thank you. This is very helpful information. So this frame fits your description, as it has what appears to be a battery box on the left side of the engine mount..
>
> Can we further isolate the type as being "small tail" vs the larger, later tail?
>
>
>
>
> Can you tell from the picture if the mount will accept a 200 Hp ranger?
>
> thanks
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Bob wrote:
>
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Early Fairchild 24s (at least the ranger powered ones)had the engine mount integral to the frame. These are referred to as the 'short nosed' Rangers. The problem for the company, was that they had to know what engine they were going to mount on the airplane when they began building the fuselage. During the preparations for WWII, lots of Ranger engines were needed for the PT-19s and PT-26s, and there wouldn't always be a Ranger available for the 24.
> >
> > Starting with the 24-R model, Fairchild made a removable engine mount, allowing the factory to build a fuselage and later decide which engine to install. These aircraft are 11 inches longer than the earlier models, allowing the oil tank to be mounted on the firewall, and allowing the oil cooler to be moved up under the cowl, and requiring the battery to be moved to the tail. The removable mount increased the weight of the fuselage and the max gross weight was not changed, therefor the earlier 'short nosed' Fairchild 24s had a slightly greater 'useful load'.
> >
> > Good luck on your selection of a project and the restoration of another wonderful airplane.
> >
> > Bob Waldron
> > Webster, MN
> > 1939 Fairchild 24K "short nosed"
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
> > >
> > > Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:
> > >
> > > I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I want to restore a Fairchild.
> > >
> > > I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.
> > >
> > > Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube structure?
> > >
> > > One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks like it would take the Ranger engine.
> > >
> > > Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with dynafocals...
> > >
> > > any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff Whitesell
> > > topfun@
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Jeff Whitesell
> topfun@...
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> I have not seen your photo, but it probably wouldn't help me at all.
>
> My 24K was shipped with a 165 hp engine and my IA got a 337 for installing the 200 hp with a plaque that states that the take-off should be kept below 165 hp. I have the Beechcraft adjustable prop and am normally unable to exceed 165 hp on takeoff at my 1000' msl strip. 165 hp is determined from the chart showing rpm and manifold pressure.
>
> I don't know a 'small tail' from a 'large tail', but I do know that the Earliest 24s were certified THREE PERSON airplanes. The later FOUR PERSON airplanes are about two inches wider. Aircraft Spruce sells two different fuselage fabric envelopes. The earlier one won't fit the later models without slitting the fabric near the rear window - and sewing a big ugly dart into the fabric. I provided the pattern for the later model fuselages.
>
> Bob Waldron
> Webster, MN
> 1939 Fairchild 24K
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Thank you. This is very helpful information. So this frame fits your description, as it has what appears to be a battery box on the left side of the engine mount..
> >
> > Can we further isolate the type as being "small tail" vs the larger, later tail?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Can you tell from the picture if the mount will accept a 200 Hp ranger?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Bob wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > Early Fairchild 24s (at least the ranger powered ones)had the engine mount integral to the frame. These are referred to as the 'short nosed' Rangers. The problem for the company, was that they had to know what engine they were going to mount on the airplane when they began building the fuselage. During the preparations for WWII, lots of Ranger engines were needed for the PT-19s and PT-26s, and there wouldn't always be a Ranger available for the 24.
> > >
> > > Starting with the 24-R model, Fairchild made a removable engine mount, allowing the factory to build a fuselage and later decide which engine to install. These aircraft are 11 inches longer than the earlier models, allowing the oil tank to be mounted on the firewall, and allowing the oil cooler to be moved up under the cowl, and requiring the battery to be moved to the tail. The removable mount increased the weight of the fuselage and the max gross weight was not changed, therefor the earlier 'short nosed' Fairchild 24s had a slightly greater 'useful load'.
> > >
> > > Good luck on your selection of a project and the restoration of another wonderful airplane.
> > >
> > > Bob Waldron
> > > Webster, MN
> > > 1939 Fairchild 24K "short nosed"
> > >
> > > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:
> > > >
> > > > I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I want to restore a Fairchild.
> > > >
> > > > I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.
> > > >
> > > > Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube structure?
> > > >
> > > > One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks like it would take the Ranger engine.
> > > >
> > > > Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with dynafocals...
> > > >
> > > > any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Whitesell
> > > > topfun@
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---
> > Jeff Whitesell
> > topfun@
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Can you tell me please when you told A/C Spruce about the wider fuselage and that their older envelopes did not fit.
> I bought a set of envelopes for a 'Quick recover job' that are still in the box about 19 years ago! and now, after the ensuing rebuild, am just about ready to cover.
> I don't really want to buy another one if I can help it.
> Many thanks,
> Frank Cox
> UC61K G-BCBL
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" wrote:
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > I have not seen your photo, but it probably wouldn't help me at all.
> >
> > My 24K was shipped with a 165 hp engine and my IA got a 337 for installing the 200 hp with a plaque that states that the take-off should be kept below 165 hp. I have the Beechcraft adjustable prop and am normally unable to exceed 165 hp on takeoff at my 1000' msl strip. 165 hp is determined from the chart showing rpm and manifold pressure.
> >
> > I don't know a 'small tail' from a 'large tail', but I do know that the Earliest 24s were certified THREE PERSON airplanes. The later FOUR PERSON airplanes are about two inches wider. Aircraft Spruce sells two different fuselage fabric envelopes. The earlier one won't fit the later models without slitting the fabric near the rear window - and sewing a big ugly dart into the fabric. I provided the pattern for the later model fuselages.
> >
> > Bob Waldron
> > Webster, MN
> > 1939 Fairchild 24K
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > Thank you. This is very helpful information. So this frame fits your description, as it has what appears to be a battery box on the left side of the engine mount..
> > >
> > > Can we further isolate the type as being "small tail" vs the larger, later tail?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you tell from the picture if the mount will accept a 200 Hp ranger?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jeff,
> > > >
> > > > Early Fairchild 24s (at least the ranger powered ones)had the engine mount integral to the frame. These are referred to as the 'short nosed' Rangers. The problem for the company, was that they had to know what engine they were going to mount on the airplane when they began building the fuselage. During the preparations for WWII, lots of Ranger engines were needed for the PT-19s and PT-26s, and there wouldn't always be a Ranger available for the 24.
> > > >
> > > > Starting with the 24-R model, Fairchild made a removable engine mount, allowing the factory to build a fuselage and later decide which engine to install. These aircraft are 11 inches longer than the earlier models, allowing the oil tank to be mounted on the firewall, and allowing the oil cooler to be moved up under the cowl, and requiring the battery to be moved to the tail. The removable mount increased the weight of the fuselage and the max gross weight was not changed, therefor the earlier 'short nosed' Fairchild 24s had a slightly greater 'useful load'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck on your selection of a project and the restoration of another wonderful airplane.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Waldron
> > > > Webster, MN
> > > > 1939 Fairchild 24K "short nosed"
> > > >
> > > > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Whitesell wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Fellow Fairchild enthusiasts:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am an old A&P, with a great number of projects behind me.....and now I want to restore a Fairchild.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am contemplating several F-24 projects...all with sketchy or no records....I need some help in identifying the fuselage frames.
> > > > >
> > > > > Did Fairchild put any identification tags or data on the welded tube structure?
> > > > >
> > > > > One project has the engine mount welded integral to the frame, and looks like it would take the Ranger engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other local Ranger projects all have a detachable engine mount, with dynafocals...
> > > > >
> > > > > any wisdom you can share on this frame is appreciated
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff Whitesell
> > > > > topfun@
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Jeff Whitesell
> > > topfun@
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>