Fairchild Club Forum

'Hi

Jim and I have already started this topic on in a different discution
but to give all a better chance to see what's the fuzz is all about
I start a new thread.

I have a F24w-41a with RAF no FK313 AFF 42-32117 and on the RAF
record file stats it's an Argus I but it has a 165 Hp Warner R 500-7.
It all started when I looked into the brake sysyem and found out
that it had differnt brakecylinders than the standard UC61a , and it
has a dashboard with a map/glove compartment on the right side of
the board like a lot of F24G's has.
futhermore the woodenstrukture behind the rear windows has the
strukture of the F24G.

So i'm a little bit confused.

So please help me out.

cheers

Göran'

'Hi Göran and Jim,

I am glad to join the discussion.

First, the name "ARGUS" is a british invention like the "MUSTANG" for
the P-51 series airplanes.

US Designation was UC-61 "Forwarder"

The differences between UC-61 (ARGUS I) and UC61A (ARGUS II) are
subtle. I refer to the T.O. 01-115CA-1 and -2.

The airframe, engine and propeller are the same. The ARGUS I has a 12
volt electrical system with a wind driven generator and no radio. The
UC-61A and K models have a 24 volt system with engine driven generator
and Bendix radio.

The ARGUS I had no control lock.
The ARGUS I had a glove compartment on the right side of the panel.
The ARGUS I had a (military )gross weight of 2700 lbs.
The ARGUS II had a (military) gross weight of 2810 lbs.
Standard basic weight ARGUS I 1630 lbs.
Standard basic weight ARGUS II 1740 lbs.

ARGUS I has trimmable ribs in the rudder; the ARGUS II has a ground
ajustable trim tabs on rudder and ailerons.

on ARGUS I the nav lights lights were more forward on the wing tip as
compared on the later models.

There are different positions of the pitot head.

ARGUS I has no tow rings on landing gear.


There is a confusion in the relevant literature, I have a list in
which the ARGUS FK 313 is listed as ARGUS I whereas I have an old B/W
picture on which the antenna masts for the radio can clearly be seen
as well as the non standard british tail wheel.

Göran can tell us if his airplane has a 24 volt system.

I guess the glove box mentioned by Göran has been put there where the
radio was.

Görand, please send me some pictures, specially from the instrument
panel, many thanks!


Over to you!

Karl Saenger augusta @ bluewin.ch

UC-61K # 891




--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "swedish_argus"
wrote:

>
> Hi
>
> Jim and I have already started this topic on in a different discution
> but to give all a better chance to see what's the fuzz is all about
> I start a new thread.
>
> I have a F24w-41a with RAF no FK313 AFF 42-32117 and on the RAF
> record file stats it's an Argus I but it has a 165 Hp Warner R 500-7.
> It all started when I looked into the brake sysyem and found out
> that it had differnt brakecylinders than the standard UC61a , and it
> has a dashboard with a map/glove compartment on the right side of
> the board like a lot of F24G's has.
> futhermore the woodenstrukture behind the rear windows has the
> strukture of the F24G.
>
> So i'm a little bit confused.
>
> So please help me out.
>
> cheers
>
> Göran
>

'

'Goran,
I have no hands-on experience of either model, but as an amateur
enthusiast/historian of the Fairchild Argus (and Cornell) the same
question troubled me a couple of years ago. I used the manuals on
Jamie's Fairchild CD and the few contemporary photographs I had to
compile the comparison pasted below.

The manuals were of wartime origin and this is now sixty-plus years
later. No doubt some surviving examples of both models will have
been updated during their military service and very long civilian
careers - hence there may have been many changes made to the
electrical system and the radio fit since these manuals were
written. My document was compiled for the purpose of identifying
service photographs, but it may be useful to your discussion.

According to my sources #42-32117 was an UC-61 serial and
FK313, an RAF Argus Mk.I serial no.

Hope this helps, Tony Broadhurst

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Differences between UC-61/Argus I and UC-61A/Argus II as given
in "Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for Army Models UC-61 and
UC-61A, Navy Model GK-1, British Models Argus I and II Airplanes" --
T.O.NO. 01-115CA-1.
____________________________________________________________________
24W-41A UC-61 Argus I

Engine: Warner R500-7 165hp @2100 rpm/sea level.

"Rudders --- equipped with ground-adjustable trimmer expansion rib
for lateral trimming".

Electrical system:
12 volt battery charged by a WD-120 Champion wind-driven generator
equipped with a brake. The brake control is mounted at the bottom
of the inst. panel. Fuse box on cabin side of firewall.

Glove box on rh. side of inst. panel.

Empty weight: 1630 lbs.

Max gross weight: 2700 lbs.
_____________________________________________________________________
24W-41A UC-61A Argus II

Engine: Warner R500-7 165hp @2100 rpm/sea level.

"-- equipped with ground-adjustable trim tabs on ailerons and
rudder".

Control lock on stick and rudder pedals.

Electrical system:
24 volt (nominal) engine driven generator and a 24 volt battery.
Circuit breaker box lower rh. side of inst. panel.

Nav lights:
Switches at top centre of instrument panel.

Radio: Bendix Type 3801-24 radio system, mounted on rh.side of
inst. panel (presumably in the same location as the glove
compartment of the UC-61).

Empty weight: 1740 lbs.

Max gross weight: 2810 lbs.
_____________________________________________________________________
Conclusions:
Look for the wind-driven generator above the rh. wing strut
arrangement, just inboard of the bracing strut that runs from the
top of the oleo leg to the wing root (UC-61) and the aerial pylons
on top of the wing - near the leading edge, the cabin and rudder (UC-
61A).

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "swedish_argus"
wrote:

>
> Hi
>
> Jim and I have already started this topic on in a different

discution

> but to give all a better chance to see what's the fuzz is all

about

> I start a new thread.
>
> I have a F24w-41a with RAF no FK313 AFF 42-32117 and on the RAF
> record file stats it's an Argus I but it has a 165 Hp Warner R 500-

7.

> It all started when I looked into the brake sysyem and found out
> that it had differnt brakecylinders than the standard UC61a , and

it

> has a dashboard with a map/glove compartment on the right side of
> the board like a lot of F24G's has.
> futhermore the woodenstrukture behind the rear windows has the
> strukture of the F24G.
>
> So i'm a little bit confused.
>
> So please help me out.
>
> cheers
>
> Göran
>

'

'Thank you Karl and Tony for the information

I think Tony is on the right track, when he says that it's been
upgraded thu the time
Because when i look at new picture (OY-ALH/D-EKAS) you can clearly
see the circular electrical output on the right hand side, and it
says 24 V
but when I look at old picture (OO-ACF) you can clearly see the
external generator.
The glove compartment is on the top right hand side, like I have
seen picture on older Fairchilds.

In one of the cratles the plane arrived in , there was a rudderlock.
like an UC-61A.

Thank you a lot

Göran




--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Saenger"
wrote:

>
> Hi Göran and Jim,
>
> I am glad to join the discussion.
>
> First, the name "ARGUS" is a british invention like the "MUSTANG"

for

> the P-51 series airplanes.
>
> US Designation was UC-61 "Forwarder"
>
> The differences between UC-61 (ARGUS I) and UC61A (ARGUS II) are
> subtle. I refer to the T.O. 01-115CA-1 and -2.
>
> The airframe, engine and propeller are the same. The ARGUS I has a

12

> volt electrical system with a wind driven generator and no radio.

The

> UC-61A and K models have a 24 volt system with engine driven

generator

> and Bendix radio.
>
> The ARGUS I had no control lock.
> The ARGUS I had a glove compartment on the right side of the panel.
> The ARGUS I had a (military )gross weight of 2700 lbs.
> The ARGUS II had a (military) gross weight of 2810 lbs.
> Standard basic weight ARGUS I 1630 lbs.
> Standard basic weight ARGUS II 1740 lbs.
>
> ARGUS I has trimmable ribs in the rudder; the ARGUS II has a ground
> ajustable trim tabs on rudder and ailerons.
>
> on ARGUS I the nav lights lights were more forward on the wing tip

as

> compared on the later models.
>
> There are different positions of the pitot head.
>
> ARGUS I has no tow rings on landing gear.
>
>
> There is a confusion in the relevant literature, I have a list in
> which the ARGUS FK 313 is listed as ARGUS I whereas I have an old

B/W

> picture on which the antenna masts for the radio can clearly be

seen

> as well as the non standard british tail wheel.
>
> Göran can tell us if his airplane has a 24 volt system.
>
> I guess the glove box mentioned by Göran has been put there where

the

> radio was.
>
> Görand, please send me some pictures, specially from the instrument
> panel, many thanks!
>
>
> Over to you!
>
> Karl Saenger augusta @ bluewin.ch
>
> UC-61K # 891
>
>
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "swedish_argus"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Jim and I have already started this topic on in a different

discution

> > but to give all a better chance to see what's the fuzz is all

about

> > I start a new thread.
> >
> > I have a F24w-41a with RAF no FK313 AFF 42-32117 and on the RAF
> > record file stats it's an Argus I but it has a 165 Hp Warner R

500-7.

> > It all started when I looked into the brake sysyem and found out
> > that it had differnt brakecylinders than the standard UC61a ,

and it

> > has a dashboard with a map/glove compartment on the right side

of

> > the board like a lot of F24G's has.
> > futhermore the woodenstrukture behind the rear windows has the
> > strukture of the F24G.
> >
> > So i'm a little bit confused.
> >
> > So please help me out.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Göran
> >
>

'

'Hello Karl!
It's been a long time since we talked!
Thank You so much for for the information on the
different types!
The Bendix Radio you speak of in the Argus II and
III's. I am looking for a non-working unit to install
in my plane while we are at shows. Any idea where I
can find one?
Jim

--- Karl Saenger wrote:

> Hi Göran and Jim,
>
> I am glad to join the discussion.
>
> First, the name "ARGUS" is a british invention like
> the "MUSTANG" for
> the P-51 series airplanes.
>
> US Designation was UC-61 "Forwarder"
>
> The differences between UC-61 (ARGUS I) and UC61A
> (ARGUS II) are
> subtle. I refer to the T.O. 01-115CA-1 and -2.
>
> The airframe, engine and propeller are the same. The
> ARGUS I has a 12
> volt electrical system with a wind driven generator
> and no radio. The
> UC-61A and K models have a 24 volt system with
> engine driven generator
> and Bendix radio.
>
> The ARGUS I had no control lock.
> The ARGUS I had a glove compartment on the right
> side of the panel.
> The ARGUS I had a (military )gross weight of 2700
> lbs.
> The ARGUS II had a (military) gross weight of 2810
> lbs.
> Standard basic weight ARGUS I 1630 lbs.
> Standard basic weight ARGUS II 1740 lbs.
>
> ARGUS I has trimmable ribs in the rudder; the ARGUS
> II has a ground
> ajustable trim tabs on rudder and ailerons.
>
> on ARGUS I the nav lights lights were more forward
> on the wing tip as
> compared on the later models.
>
> There are different positions of the pitot head.
>
> ARGUS I has no tow rings on landing gear.
>
>
> There is a confusion in the relevant literature, I
> have a list in
> which the ARGUS FK 313 is listed as ARGUS I whereas
> I have an old B/W
> picture on which the antenna masts for the radio can
> clearly be seen
> as well as the non standard british tail wheel.
>
> Göran can tell us if his airplane has a 24 volt
> system.
>
> I guess the glove box mentioned by Göran has been
> put there where the
> radio was.
>
> Görand, please send me some pictures, specially from
> the instrument
> panel, many thanks!
>
>
> Over to you!
>
> Karl Saenger augusta @ bluewin.ch
>
> UC-61K # 891
>
>
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com,
> "swedish_argus"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Jim and I have already started this topic on in a
> different discution
> > but to give all a better chance to see what's the
> fuzz is all about
> > I start a new thread.
> >
> > I have a F24w-41a with RAF no FK313 AFF 42-32117
> and on the RAF
> > record file stats it's an Argus I but it has a 165
> Hp Warner R 500-7.
> > It all started when I looked into the brake sysyem
> and found out
> > that it had differnt brakecylinders than the
> standard UC61a , and it
> > has a dashboard with a map/glove compartment on
> the right side of
> > the board like a lot of F24G's has.
> > futhermore the woodenstrukture behind the rear
> windows has the
> > strukture of the F24G.
> >
> > So i'm a little bit confused.
> >
> > So please help me out.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Göran
> >
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________
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'Hi Tony-
You are correct on Goran's plane for military History.
I just received a message from RAF Hendon Records.
Jim

--- tonyb42uk wrote:

> Goran,
> I have no hands-on experience of either model, but
> as an amateur
> enthusiast/historian of the Fairchild Argus (and
> Cornell) the same
> question troubled me a couple of years ago. I used
> the manuals on
> Jamie's Fairchild CD and the few contemporary
> photographs I had to
> compile the comparison pasted below.
>
> The manuals were of wartime origin and this is now
> sixty-plus years
> later. No doubt some surviving examples of both
> models will have
> been updated during their military service and very
> long civilian
> careers - hence there may have been many changes
> made to the
> electrical system and the radio fit since these
> manuals were
> written. My document was compiled for the purpose
> of identifying
> service photographs, but it may be useful to your
> discussion.
>
> According to my sources #42-32117 was an UC-61
> serial and
> FK313, an RAF Argus Mk.I serial no.
>
> Hope this helps, Tony Broadhurst
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> Differences between UC-61/Argus I and UC-61A/Argus
> II as given
> in "Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for Army
> Models UC-61 and
> UC-61A, Navy Model GK-1, British Models Argus I and
> II Airplanes" --
> T.O.NO. 01-115CA-1.
>

____________________________________________________________________

> 24W-41A UC-61 Argus I
>
> Engine: Warner R500-7 165hp @2100 rpm/sea level.
>
> "Rudders --- equipped with ground-adjustable trimmer
> expansion rib
> for lateral trimming".
>
> Electrical system:
> 12 volt battery charged by a WD-120 Champion
> wind-driven generator
> equipped with a brake. The brake control is mounted
> at the bottom
> of the inst. panel. Fuse box on cabin side of
> firewall.
>
> Glove box on rh. side of inst. panel.
>
> Empty weight: 1630 lbs.
>
> Max gross weight: 2700 lbs.
>

_____________________________________________________________________

> 24W-41A UC-61A Argus II
>
> Engine: Warner R500-7 165hp @2100 rpm/sea level.
>
> "-- equipped with ground-adjustable trim tabs on
> ailerons and
> rudder".
>
> Control lock on stick and rudder pedals.
>
> Electrical system:
> 24 volt (nominal) engine driven generator and a 24
> volt battery.
> Circuit breaker box lower rh. side of inst. panel.
>
> Nav lights:
> Switches at top centre of instrument panel.
>
> Radio: Bendix Type 3801-24 radio system, mounted on
> rh.side of
> inst. panel (presumably in the same location as the
> glove
> compartment of the UC-61).
>
> Empty weight: 1740 lbs.
>
> Max gross weight: 2810 lbs.
>

_____________________________________________________________________

> Conclusions:
> Look for the wind-driven generator above the rh.
> wing strut
> arrangement, just inboard of the bracing strut that
> runs from the
> top of the oleo leg to the wing root (UC-61) and the
> aerial pylons
> on top of the wing - near the leading edge, the
> cabin and rudder (UC-
> 61A).
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com,
> "swedish_argus"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Jim and I have already started this topic on in a
> different
> discution
> > but to give all a better chance to see what's the
> fuzz is all
> about
> > I start a new thread.
> >
> > I have a F24w-41a with RAF no FK313 AFF 42-32117
> and on the RAF
> > record file stats it's an Argus I but it has a 165
> Hp Warner R 500-
> 7.
> > It all started when I looked into the brake sysyem
> and found out
> > that it had differnt brakecylinders than the
> standard UC61a , and
> it
> > has a dashboard with a map/glove compartment on
> the right side of
> > the board like a lot of F24G's has.
> > futhermore the woodenstrukture behind the rear
> windows has the
> > strukture of the F24G.
> >
> > So i'm a little bit confused.
> >
> > So please help me out.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Göran
> >
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
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