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Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:45 pm
by dcasali
'Hi All,
Due to a brief interlude spent in an alfalfa field (to be the subject of
another post) I recently had a long chat with my local GADO
representatives. I emerged from the field with my honor and my aircraft
intact; however, it was noted by my FAA rep that my 1937 24 G has 30
gallon wing tanks, and the type certificate only specifies 20 gallon
tanks (with an optional 20 gallon tank in place of the rear seat).
My aircraft was rebuilt in 1967 and 1993. The logbooks (which only go
back to the mid 1950's) show no modifications or 337's for the 30 gallon
tanks. Nor do the FAA records in Oklahoma City. The rebuilder from 1993
told me the tanks were already installed in the wings when he inspected
and recovered them.
So, the problem I have is how to make these tanks legal. Has anyone
337'd such a tank modification? Are the later 24's wings (which had the
30 gallon option) significantly different from the earlier wings? If
so, how?
One possibility is that my 24 G's wings were replaced at some point with
later wings which included the larger tanks... how could I identify such
wings?
Any help gratefully accepted...
Dan Casali
N2088
--
Dan Casali
MacWizard
Box 1286 Ketchum, ID 83340
208.726.5120
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:37 pm
by danMichael
'Dan:
> One possibility is that my 24 G's wings were replaced at some point
> with
> later wings which included the larger tanks... how could I identify
> such
> wings?
I cant offer much help, but the information in Appendix I of the 1946
F-24 Handbook ("Data for "24" Series prior to 1946 models") lends
credence to this theory. It lists the 30 gallon tanks as special
equipment starting with the 24K; the 24J and earlier (back to the
24C8E, including the 24G) have the 20 gallon aux tank listed as special
equipment. No model offered both.
Good luck.
:Dan Michael
:F24R46A NC81323
p.s.: Im glad you & your plane escaped the alfalfa safely.'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:12 pm
by Tom Downey
'My aircraft has the 30 gal tanks installed in 1957 on a 337 that was
submitted as a rebuild of a wreck. I have all the data and
corospondance made with the FAA to return the aircraft to service,
including the letter from the factory engineer that states there are
no differences in the W or the R wings thru out the production run,
in which the change from 20 to 30 gallon tanks was made.
The 337s that are in my history records show the FAA buy off on the
installation of the warner 165 and the fuel flow requirements.
I can photo copy the pages and mail them to you, but the fax will
not copy good enough to read.
> So, the problem I have is how to make these tanks legal. Has
anyone 337'd such a tank modification? Are the later 24's wings
(which had the 30 gallon option) significantly different from the
earlier wings? If so, how?
> One possibility is that my 24 G's wings were replaced at some
point with
> later wings which included the larger tanks... how could I
identify such
> wings?
>
> Any help gratefully accepted...
>
> Dan Casali
> N2088
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Casali
> MacWizard
> Box 1286 Ketchum, ID 83340
> 208.726.5120
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:20 pm
by Michael Denest
'Check the type certificate data sheets (aka ATC) for
both the G and the later models. The tank capacity is
listed which would give you an idea. Go here to get
copies of A-706 and A-707
http://www2.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/
More than likely your aircraft was retrofitted with
later wings. Possibly the person doing the work never
checked them to see what capacity the tanks were or
just didn't care.
I took a quick look at them and found that your wings
could have come from any number of models.
The G model wing trailing edges have a sweeping curve
at the root that fairs aft to the fuselage. If not,
they could be from a later model or if they are,
someone could have modified the wings to fit the
larger tanks.
Find a DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative)
to help you get them documented with a 337 field
approval installation for your aircraft. FAA cannot
deny you an approval and is required to ask assistance
as required to give the approval.
Mike Denest
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:23 pm
by dcasali
'Tom,
You are the man!
Please mail me a copy of the documents you mention below. Which document
was the fax?
My address is Dan Casali, PO Box 1286, Ketchum, ID 83340
I haven't visited your web site in a few months. How is the rebuild
progressing?
Thanks....
Dan
Tom Downey wrote:
>My aircraft has the 30 gal tanks installed in 1957 on a 337 that was
>submitted as a rebuild of a wreck. I have all the data and
>corospondance made with the FAA to return the aircraft to service,
>including the letter from the factory engineer that states there are
>no differences in the W or the R wings thru out the production run,
>in which the change from 20 to 30 gallon tanks was made.
>
>The 337s that are in my history records show the FAA buy off on the
>installation of the warner 165 and the fuel flow requirements.
>
>I can photo copy the pages and mail them to you, but the fax will
>not copy good enough to read.
>
>
>
>
>>So, the problem I have is how to make these tanks legal. Has
>>
>>
>anyone 337'd such a tank modification? Are the later 24's wings
>(which had the 30 gallon option) significantly different from the
>earlier wings? If so, how?
>
>
>
>>One possibility is that my 24 G's wings were replaced at some
>>
>>
>point with
>
>
>>later wings which included the larger tanks... how could I
>>
>>
>identify such
>
>
>>wings?
>>
>>Any help gratefully accepted...
>>
>>Dan Casali
>>N2088
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Dan Casali
>>MacWizard
>>Box 1286 Ketchum, ID 83340
>>208.726.5120
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
--
Dan Casali
MacWizard
Box 1286 Ketchum, ID 83340
208.726.5120
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:36 pm
by OldOOwl@aol.com
'My 24G was converted to a three seat from four when it was used as a patrol
plane off the East coast during W W II...and had 30gal. tanks installed at that
time. Maybe yours has the same history?
Richard Hawley
NC19105
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:26 pm
by dcasali
'Could be.... the N number shows up on a list of coastal patrol aircraft
published in the Fairchild Flyer several years ago. That would have
preceeded the logbooks I have. Good info... thanks!
I don't have any bomb racks, however....
Dan Casali
N2088
OldOOwl@aol.com wrote:
>My 24G was converted to a three seat from four when it was used as a patrol
>plane off the East coast during W W II...and had 30gal. tanks installed at that
>time. Maybe yours has the same history?
>Richard Hawley
>NC19105
>
>
>
>
Dan Casali
MacWizard
Box 1286 Ketchum, ID 83340
208.726.5120
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:33 pm
by dcasali
'Tom,
I received the paperwork you mailed today. The copies are excellent;
thanks a bunch.
I tried to email you at your whidbey.net address over the weekend...
did my mail get through? I pointed Joe DeNess (sp?), a fellow who is
restoring a 24G, at your web site and suggested he give you a call. Joe
is also in need of pistons for a Warner 145, for you guys who are
thinking of fabricating... He doesn't have email but he is in the club
roster.
Thanks again, Tom.
Dan Casali
N2088
Tom Downey wrote:
>My aircraft has the 30 gal tanks installed in 1957 on a 337 that was
>submitted as a rebuild of a wreck. I have all the data and
>corospondance made with the FAA to return the aircraft to service,
>including the letter from the factory engineer that states there are
>no differences in the W or the R wings thru out the production run,
>in which the change from 20 to 30 gallon tanks was made.
>
>The 337s that are in my history records show the FAA buy off on the
>installation of the warner 165 and the fuel flow requirements.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Dan Casali
MacWizard
Box 1286 Ketchum, ID 83340
208.726.5120
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:11 pm
by Michael Denest
'Tom,
My dad is computer challenged. However, you can
communicate directly with my brother Mark. He's on
the list at
mdaero1941@aol.com.
Mike Denest
--- Dan Casali wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I received the paperwork you mailed today. The
> copies are excellent;
> thanks a bunch.
>
> I tried to email you at your whidbey.net address
> over the weekend...
> did my mail get through? I pointed Joe DeNess (sp?),
> a fellow who is
> restoring a 24G, at your web site and suggested he
> give you a call. Joe
> is also in need of pistons for a Warner 145, for you
> guys who are
> thinking of fabricating... He doesn't have email but
> he is in the club
> roster.
>
> Thanks again, Tom.
>
> Dan Casali
> N2088
>
>
>
> Tom Downey wrote:
>
> >My aircraft has the 30 gal tanks installed in 1957
> on a 337 that was
> >submitted as a rebuild of a wreck. I have all the
> data and
> >corospondance made with the FAA to return the
> aircraft to service,
> >including the letter from the factory engineer that
> states there are
> >no differences in the W or the R wings thru out the
> production run,
> >in which the change from 20 to 30 gallon tanks was
> made.
> >
> >The 337s that are in my history records show the
> FAA buy off on the
> >installation of the warner 165 and the fuel flow
> requirements.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dan Casali
> MacWizard
> Box 1286 Ketchum, ID 83340
> 208.726.5120
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
__________________________________
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Re: Need info on history of early 24 series wings / fuel tanks
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:39 pm
by Tom Downey
'
> Tom,
> My dad is computer challenged. However, you can
> communicate directly with my brother Mark. He's on
> the list at mdaero1941@a...
> Mike Denest
Great, get mark to give your dad a look at my home page.
I believe I have a lead to several Warner 145's in Canada that may
be purchased. We will see what turns up there.
I also gave your Dads phone number to a man in BC who may have
pistons.
I understand there are 4 different part numbers for pistons used in
the 145. Which is your Dad looking for?'