Fairchild Club Forum

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2001 8:19 am**

'Hi!

First of all, let me apologise for butting into your club. I'm don't
own or fly a Fairchild, I'm not even a lifelong Fairchold fan. In fact,
I'd never even heard of Fairchild until this week. But I'd appreciate
some advice, because I've been approached by someone who is considering
forming a group around a Fairchild Argus which he's found for sale.

I'm a very new PPL (passed my skills test around a month ago), and at
the moment I'm having a great time just flying around in Piper Warriors
which I rent from West London Aero Club (http://www.wlac.co.uk), at
White Waltham airfield near London, England.

My plan for future flying consists of sticking with Warriors for a
couple of months while I gain a bit of experience and confidence, then
getting some taildragger training on the club's Super Cub. After
building some time on the Cub, I thought I'd buy my own plane to build
some tailwheel time on, before searching out some more "interesting"
things to fly. I was thinking of buying something like a Cessna 140 or
a Luscombe (the main reason being that these are some of the few
taildraggers which can be kept outside, and hanger space is in short
supply around London - it's not due to any burning desire to own a
Cessna 140 in particular). I had not really expected to be ready to
start looking for my own plane for around another year.

Then I got an e-mail from a gentleman who is trying to form this
Fairchild group, and suddenly my plans have been thrown completely into
disarray!

As I said, I'd never heard of Fairchild until I received this e-mail.
The gentleman told me that the Argus is a "big WW2 4 seat high wing
taildragger with short field performance, good touring range, and
friendly Warbird pretensions," and that was about all I knew. I wasn't
really interested, and didn't think anything more of it, until I found I
had 5 minutes to spare at work. I re-read the e-mail, and decided to
check out the Argus "just for something to do to fill some time."

There isn't really too much information on the web about any Fairchild
at all, but the few pictures and details I found must have hit a nerve,
because over the past few days some part of me seems to have become
convinced that I want a share in this plane! I have tried to find as
much information as I can. Every picture I see shows a beautiful work
of art - but they're mostly on museum websites aimed at non-pilots, with
very little information except for physical dimensions and speed.

But, with so little information, I'm not sure that this the plane for
me. So, some questions:

- What is the handling of the Argus like? Is it something which a very
low time pilot, such as me, could manage easilly?

- How does it handle on the ground? Is it a plane which is likely to
cause problems for someone who's extremely new to taildraggers? Should
I get checked out in a Cub and get some taildragging experience, or is
the Argus a reasonable taildragger trainer itself? I will certainly get
a couple of lessons in a Cub before commiting myself, just to make sure
I really do like taildraggers - but would this be enough?

- I don't know yet what condition this particular plane is in, but
assuming it's in reasable shape (and I won't be interested in it if
turns out that it's not) what kind of price would you expect to pay for
it? Since there are so few around, I have no idea what their value is;
I don't know whether I can actually afford to get involved!

- Is there anything else that I should know before I make a decision as
to whether or not I'm interested in this plane?

Thanks for any advice!

Dean
----------------'

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2001 10:49 am**

'Dean:

No apologies needed, youre not butting into a private club.

As a low-time Fairchild pilot/owner, I will take a stab at some of
your questions:

>- What is the handling of the Argus like? Is it something which a very
>low time pilot, such as me, could manage easilly?

The handling of the F24 is very well-mannered. I dont think you can
locate anyone who has found a vicious bone in its body. Stall
characteristics lean toward the mushing end of the continuum.
Controls are well balanced and low in friction. Flapped 24s have
lots of drag available for steep approaches, similar to a Cessna 150
with 40 degree flaps. It should present no problems to a low-time
pilot in the air. Like all older airplanes, you will need more
rudder to coordinate turns than a Cherokee.

>- How does it handle on the ground? Is it a plane which is likely to
>cause problems for someone who's extremely new to taildraggers? Should
>I get checked out in a Cub and get some taildragging experience, or is
>the Argus a reasonable taildragger trainer itself? I will certainly get
>a couple of lessons in a Cub before commiting myself, just to make sure
>I really do like taildraggers - but would this be enough?

The Fairchild is quite docile on the ground -- in general no more
demanding than a Super Cub or Citabria. The long travel oleos do a
good job of absorbing less-than-perfect landings without the bounce
of a metal-geared Citabria or bungee-shocked Husky. The long
wheelbase and very wide track help make it benign. It can be a
little directionally unstable on hard surfaces (due to uneven oleo
travel?); grass runways were the norm when it was new. A bigger
problem on my plane is tailwheel shimmy on hard surfaces; I am still
addressing this issue. Ground visibility is good-ish, i.e., much
better than a J-3 Cub or other rear-seat tailwheel aircraft, but not
Cessna 140 or Citabria level. I am 6' 2" / 188cm and can see
directly ahead only over the curved lower left corner of the panel.
Sticking your head out the lowered window helps, but Im still blind
forward to the right. S-turns are commonly required. My expander
tube brakes have adequate power: they are able to hold the plane on
a full power run-up.

The side-by-side seating is good for training, but many 24s dont have
right side brakes. I found it a little awkward to fly a stick with
my left hand for the first few hours.

>- I don't know yet what condition this particular plane is in, but
>assuming it's in reasable shape (and I won't be interested in it if
>turns out that it's not) what kind of price would you expect to pay for
>it? Since there are so few around, I have no idea what their value is;
>I don't know whether I can actually afford to get involved!

I really cant say what prices are doing these days, especially in the
UK. Prices seem to vary widely according to condition.

>- Is there anything else that I should know before I make a decision as
>to whether or not I'm interested in this plane?

Its a wonderful plane, but it is an antique, so when things break you
cannot expect the mechanic at the local FBO to be an expert on its
care, and finding a part may not be a simple phone call away.

Good luck. Feel free to contact me directly if I can answer any
other questions.

:Dan Michael
:F24R46A NC81323
:Chicago, USA'

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:47 am**

'Hi Dean,
I think your'e on the right track in getting some experience in a taildragger such as a Cub or an Aeronca might be a better choice. Before purchasing a Fairchild you might consider that it is a high maintenance airplane and the parts are very difficult to find. The aircraft itself is very easy to fly. Your second choice of a Cessna 140 has more merit, however, because this aircraft is a very low maintenance bird and the parts are easy to find. I can say this on both accounts because I have owned and maintained a Cessna 120 and a Fairchild 24W for the past thirty years. I enjoy flying both airplanes equally. If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me anytime.
I have had an A&P/IA since 1971 and am currently a self-employed aircraft restorer.
My Fairchild was featured on the cover of the August 2000 issue of the AOPA magazine. This article may be of some helpl to you.
Good luck with your flying and safe landings.
Tom Burmeister

"Dashwood, Dean" wrote: Hi!

First of all, let me apologise for butting into your club. I'm don't
own or fly a Fairchild, I'm not even a lifelong Fairchold fan. In fact,
I'd never even heard of Fairchild until this week. But I'd appreciate
some advice, because I've been approached by someone who is considering
forming a group around a Fairchild Argus which he's found for sale.

I'm a very new PPL (passed my skills test around a month ago), and at
the moment I'm having a great time just flying around in Piper Warriors
which I rent from West London Aero Club (http://www.wlac.co.uk), at
White Waltham airfield near London, England.

My plan for future flying consists of sticking with Warriors for a
couple of months while I gain a bit of experience and confidence, then
getting some taildragger training on the club's Super Cub. After
building some time on the Cub, I thought I'd buy my own plane to build
some tailwheel time on, before searching out some more "interesting"
things to fly. I was thinking of buying something like a Cessna 140 or
a Luscombe (the main reason being that these are some of the few
taildraggers which can be kept outside, and hanger space is in short
supply around London - it's not due to any burning desire to own a
Cessna 140 in particular). I had not really expected to be ready to
start looking for my own plane for around another year.

Then I got an e-mail from a gentleman who is trying to form this
Fairchild group, and suddenly my plans have been thrown completely into
disarray!

As I said, I'd never heard of Fairchild until I received this e-mail.
The gentleman told me that the Argus is a "big WW2 4 seat high wing
taildragger with short field performance, good touring range, and
friendly Warbird pretensions," and that was about all I knew. I wasn't
really interested, and didn't think anything more of it, until I found I
had 5 minutes to spare at work. I re-read the e-mail, and decided to
check out the Argus "just for something to do to fill some time."

There isn't really too much information on the web about any Fairchild
at all, but the few pictures and details I found must have hit a nerve,
because over the past few days some part of me seems to have become
convinced that I want a share in this plane! I have tried to find as
much information as I can. Every picture I see shows a beautiful work
of art - but they're mostly on museum websites aimed at non-pilots, with
very little information except for physical dimensions and speed.

But, with so little information, I'm not sure that this the plane for
me. So, some questions:

- What is the handling of the Argus like? Is it something which a very
low time pilot, such as me, could manage easilly?

- How does it handle on the ground? Is it a plane which is likely to
cause problems for someone who's extremely new to taildraggers? Should
I get checked out in a Cub and get some taildragging experience, or is
the Argus a reasonable taildragger trainer itself? I will certainly get
a couple of lessons in a Cub before commiting myself, just to make sure
I really do like taildraggers - but would this be enough?

- I don't know yet what condition this particular plane is in, but
assuming it's in reasable shape (and I won't be interested in it if
turns out that it's not) what kind of price would you expect to pay for
it? Since there are so few around, I have no idea what their value is;
I don't know whether I can actually afford to get involved!

- Is there anything else that I should know before I make a decision as
to whether or not I'm interested in this plane?

Thanks for any advice!

Dean
----------------

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Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2001 3:56 am**

'Thanks to Dan, Tom and John for your advice on this.

Having thought about this carefully over the past couple of weeks, I've
decided to continue to register a cautious interest in the Fairchild.

I've taken on board the comments about maintenance, specifically some
parts being hard to find. I'm not too worried about this - I've been
involved in classic cars for a few years, and I'm used to having to hunt
around for parts and knowledge. Of course, planes require a lot more
attention than cars, and parts are even harder to find due to production
numbers being lower. I appreciate that a rare aircraft such as this
will not be flying 100% of the time, but since I will be using it purely
for fun this is not a major problem. However, I will be a lot more
careful about ensuring that any known defects can be fixed before making
any kind of commitment.

As far as the type is concerned, I can't find any reason why the
Fairchild would not be suitable for me, except for the maintenance
concerns. But I will definitely be getting some training and
expereience in a Cub first.

There are still lots of reasons not to purchase this particular aircraft
- I still haven't seen it, haven't met the other members of the group,
and don't have anywhere to keep it! So I think it's fair to say that
there's a good chance that I will end up backing out. But if everything
manages to come together and I do find myself the proud part-owner of a
Fairchild at any point in the future, I promise you I'll be back here
looking for support!

Thanks again for you help.

Dean
--------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dashwood, Dean
> Sent: 11 July 2001 11:36
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Fairchild Argus general advice
>
> Hi!
>
> First of all, let me apologise for butting into your club.
> I'm don't own or fly a Fairchild, I'm not even a lifelong
> Fairchold fan. In fact, I'd never even heard of Fairchild
> until this week. But I'd appreciate some advice, because
> I've been approached by someone who is considering forming a
> group around a Fairchild Argus which he's found for sale.
>
> I'm a very new PPL (passed my skills test around a month
> ago), and at the moment I'm having a great time just flying
> around in Piper Warriors which I rent from West London Aero
> Club (http://www.wlac.co.uk), at White Waltham airfield near
> London, England.
>
> My plan for future flying consists of sticking with Warriors
> for a couple of months while I gain a bit of experience and
> confidence, then getting some taildragger training on the
> club's Super Cub. After building some time on the Cub, I
> thought I'd buy my own plane to build some tailwheel time on,
> before searching out some more "interesting" things to fly.
> I was thinking of buying something like a Cessna 140 or a
> Luscombe (the main reason being that these are some of the
> few taildraggers which can be kept outside, and hanger space
> is in short supply around London - it's not due to any
> burning desire to own a Cessna 140 in particular). I had not
> really expected to be ready to start looking for my own plane
> for around another year.
>
> Then I got an e-mail from a gentleman who is trying to form
> this Fairchild group, and suddenly my plans have been thrown
> completely into disarray!
>
> As I said, I'd never heard of Fairchild until I received this
> e-mail. The gentleman told me that the Argus is a "big WW2 4
> seat high wing taildragger with short field performance, good
> touring range, and friendly Warbird pretensions," and that
> was about all I knew. I wasn't really interested, and didn't
> think anything more of it, until I found I had 5 minutes to
> spare at work. I re-read the e-mail, and decided to check
> out the Argus "just for something to do to fill some time."
>
> There isn't really too much information on the web about any
> Fairchild at all, but the few pictures and details I found
> must have hit a nerve, because over the past few days some
> part of me seems to have become convinced that I want a share
> in this plane! I have tried to find as much information as I
> can. Every picture I see shows a beautiful work of art - but
> they're mostly on museum websites aimed at non-pilots, with
> very little information except for physical dimensions and speed.
>
> But, with so little information, I'm not sure that this the
> plane for me. So, some questions:
>
> - What is the handling of the Argus like? Is it something
> which a very low time pilot, such as me, could manage easilly?
>
> - How does it handle on the ground? Is it a plane which is
> likely to cause problems for someone who's extremely new to
> taildraggers? Should I get checked out in a Cub and get some
> taildragging experience, or is the Argus a reasonable
> taildragger trainer itself? I will certainly get a couple of
> lessons in a Cub before commiting myself, just to make sure I
> really do like taildraggers - but would this be enough?
>
> - I don't know yet what condition this particular plane is
> in, but assuming it's in reasable shape (and I won't be
> interested in it if turns out that it's not) what kind of
> price would you expect to pay for it? Since there are so few
> around, I have no idea what their value is; I don't know
> whether I can actually afford to get involved!
>
> - Is there anything else that I should know before I make a
> decision as to whether or not I'm interested in this plane?
>
> Thanks for any advice!
>
> Dean
> ----------------

'

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2001 8:30 am**

'

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom and Carol Burmeister"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fairchild Argus general advice

>
> Hi Dean,
> I think your'e on the right track in getting some experience in a
taildragger such as a Cub or an Aeronca might be a better choice. Before
purchasing a Fairchild you might consider that it is a high maintenance
airplane and the parts are very difficult to find. The aircraft itself is
very easy to fly. Your second choice of a Cessna 140 has more merit,
however, because this aircraft is a very low maintenance bird and the parts
are easy to find. I can say this on both accounts because I have owned and
maintained a Cessna 120 and a Fairchild 24W for the past thirty years. I
enjoy flying both airplanes equally. If you have any questions, feel free
to e-mail me anytime.
> I have had an A&P/IA since 1971 and am currently a self-employed aircraft
restorer.
> My Fairchild was featured on the cover of the August 2000 issue of the
AOPA magazine. This article may be of some helpl to you.
> Good luck with your flying and safe landings.
> Tom Burmeister
>
> "Dashwood, Dean" wrote: Hi!
>
> First of all, let me apologise for butting into your club. I'm don't
> own or fly a Fairchild, I'm not even a lifelong Fairchold fan. In fact,
> I'd never even heard of Fairchild until this week. But I'd appreciate
> some advice, because I've been approached by someone who is considering
> forming a group around a Fairchild Argus which he's found for sale.
>
> I'm a very new PPL (passed my skills test around a month ago), and at
> the moment I'm having a great time just flying around in Piper Warriors
> which I rent from West London Aero Club (http://www.wlac.co.uk), at
> White Waltham airfield near London, England.
>
> My plan for future flying consists of sticking with Warriors for a
> couple of months while I gain a bit of experience and confidence, then
> getting some taildragger training on the club's Super Cub. After
> building some time on the Cub, I thought I'd buy my own plane to build
> some tailwheel time on, before searching out some more "interesting"
> things to fly. I was thinking of buying something like a Cessna 140 or
> a Luscombe (the main reason being that these are some of the few
> taildraggers which can be kept outside, and hanger space is in short
> supply around London - it's not due to any burning desire to own a
> Cessna 140 in particular). I had not really expected to be ready to
> start looking for my own plane for around another year.
>
> Then I got an e-mail from a gentleman who is trying to form this
> Fairchild group, and suddenly my plans have been thrown completely into
> disarray!
>
> As I said, I'd never heard of Fairchild until I received this e-mail.
> The gentleman told me that the Argus is a "big WW2 4 seat high wing
> taildragger with short field performance, good touring range, and
> friendly Warbird pretensions," and that was about all I knew. I wasn't
> really interested, and didn't think anything more of it, until I found I
> had 5 minutes to spare at work. I re-read the e-mail, and decided to
> check out the Argus "just for something to do to fill some time."
>
> There isn't really too much information on the web about any Fairchild
> at all, but the few pictures and details I found must have hit a nerve,
> because over the past few days some part of me seems to have become
> convinced that I want a share in this plane! I have tried to find as
> much information as I can. Every picture I see shows a beautiful work
> of art - but they're mostly on museum websites aimed at non-pilots, with
> very little information except for physical dimensions and speed.
>
> But, with so little information, I'm not sure that this the plane for
> me. So, some questions:
>
> - What is the handling of the Argus like? Is it something which a very
> low time pilot, such as me, could manage easilly?
>
> - How does it handle on the ground? Is it a plane which is likely to
> cause problems for someone who's extremely new to taildraggers? Should
> I get checked out in a Cub and get some taildragging experience, or is
> the Argus a reasonable taildragger trainer itself? I will certainly get
> a couple of lessons in a Cub before commiting myself, just to make sure
> I really do like taildraggers - but would this be enough?
>
> - I don't know yet what condition this particular plane is in, but
> assuming it's in reasable shape (and I won't be interested in it if
> turns out that it's not) what kind of price would you expect to pay for
> it? Since there are so few around, I have no idea what their value is;
> I don't know whether I can actually afford to get involved!
>
> - Is there anything else that I should know before I make a decision as
> to whether or not I'm interested in this plane?
>
> Thanks for any advice!
>
> Dean
> ----------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year!
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
>
>

'

Fairchild Club Forum

Re: Fairchild Argus general advice

Fairchild Argus general advice

Re: Fairchild Argus general advice

Re: Fairchild Argus general advice

Re: Fairchild Argus general advice

Re: Fairchild Argus general advice