Fairchild Club Forum

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2001 7:59 pm**

'Hello listers,

I have been busy at work addressing that squawk list that came with the ferry flight of my 24W from San Diego.

I completed a teardown of the Eclipse starter -- Wow, what a beautiful piece of machining that is -- anyway, thanks to Al Ball in CA, I went ahead and manufactured a new seal in place of the leather original. I will post pictures and a drawing for all of you that may have a leak on my website in the future -- It ain't up there yet, but it will be --give me a week or so. Ground runs were great, and all appears dry. Knocking out other oil leaks, and now sending off my compass and MP gauge to OH.

Here's my question:
As we trucked cross country, I never did dial in a good landing. Now, I am not new to the tail dragger, and I have plenty of experience in other types -- My airplane is very difficult to keep on centerline. It really wants to zig and zag -- the rudder has authority, but the mass of the tail of the airplane required a very gentle touch. Wheel landings were very wanderous. The best technique was to slow it down and three point it with full flaps. Now, I hear that the 24 is "a very easy airplane to land" -- so I am looking at reasons for this difficulty. I measured the toe-in of the main gear -- I strapped a length of square steel tube to each wheel and measured -- measured at 2' in front of the wheel, to 2' behind the wheel. I came up with 2.5" TOE-IN.

That would certainly explain some of the landing manners --

I would like comments from the rest of you on landing your airplanes.

Also, would be interested on proceedure for aligning the wheels. --- Rumor is that you heat and bend the axel -- then have it annealed--

I look forward to you inputs.

Glenn Chiappe
www.planeplace.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:16 pm**

'Hi Glenn,

I purchased a 24-G in November and flew it 3500 miles home from
Nashville TN to Gooding, ID via Florida. I must say, many of my rollout
were, er, interesting in the extreme. I would wheel it on (the
instructor who checked me out said that was "the only way") and
everything was fine until I let the tail down. Then, damn, it was Katty
bar the door. It got to where I wouldn't accept anything less than a 150
ft wide runway just so I'd have room to roam.

Anyway, upon jacking up and carefully inspecting my (free pivoting)
tailwheel, I found that the coil spring around the strut had fractured
just above the weld to the plate (bushing?) at the base of the spring.
You absolutely couldn't see the break unless you jacked the tail and
turned the wheel sideways by hand.

Better yet, the now unattached plate was acting as a cam and actually
turning the wheel at an angle to the runway when the wheel was
unweighted. Once plate and spring were reattached, the rollout
excitement subsided, and my heart no longer goes pitter patter as the
tail goes down.

2.5 inches of toe-in seems a bit much (anyone know what it is supposed
to be?) but I believe excessive toe-in (assuming its equally divided
between the wheels) might cause tire wear, but not instability. Toe-out
is another thing altogether.

My current problem is getting rid of a tailwheel shimmy that is eating
up tires real quick. (I can fry a tailwheel tire in 12 landings). Does
it really matter with a free pivoting tailwheel if the stick is all the
way back on roll-out? The shimmy us worse when I put pressure on the
tailwheel, and I think the wear is worse too.

PS I'd love to hear comments on cross-wind technique. When I asked the
previous owner of my plane how it handled in crosswinds, he said "I
don't land it in crosswinds". Hmmm.

Dan Casali

Glenn Chiappe wrote:

> Hello listers,
>
> I have been busy at work addressing that squawk list that came with
> the ferry flight of my 24W from San Diego.
>
>
> Here's my question:
> As we trucked cross country, I never did dial in a good landing. Now,
> I am not new to the tail dragger, and I have plenty of experience in
> other types -- My airplane is very difficult to keep on centerline.
> It really wants to zig and zag -- the rudder has authority, but the
> mass of the tail of the airplane required a very gentle touch. Wheel
> landings were very wanderous. The best technique was to slow it down
> and three point it with full flaps. Now, I hear that the 24 is "a
> very easy airplane to land" -- so I am looking at reasons for this
> difficulty. I measured the toe-in of the main gear -- I strapped a
> length of square steel tube to each wheel and measured -- measured at
> 2' in front of the wheel, to 2' behind the wheel. I came up with 2.5"
> TOE-IN.
>
> That would certainly explain some of the landing manners --
>
>
> Glenn Chiappe

'

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:33 pm**

'Glenn,

My F-24 is also a little shaky on landing. The aircraft of this time were
never made for hard surface. Go land it in the grass and it is a wonderful
landing airplane every time. Keep an eye on the gear attach bolts and knuckle
joints (lubed and not over tight). Keep the strut oil in good supply. As for
the Gear rework, need to check the drawings. Also reheat treatment will be
required if you apply any heat to the struts. 170,000 psi. required.

Sincerely,

Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA

Visit my Aviation Web Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/AIRCRAFTRESTORATIONREPAIRindex.html">AIRCRAFT RESTORATION & REPAIR

Come Meet My Family:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/TreatFamilyHomePage.html">THE TREAT FAMILY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2001 6:22 am**

'Glenn,

I always 3 point them in a cross wind. The slower the better. It is a very nice airplane in a crosswind. Wing down all the way through roll out.

Put the Russ tail wheel conversion on it and it will help or stop the shimmy and be a cheaper tail wheel tire and tube. Russ Harmuth 800-304-7371. www.russaircraft.com Tell him Gene Lehman sent you. Also go through the tailwheel and make sure it is tight. You will find you usually will not force the tail wheel with full aft stick. Usually as much aft force as need to keep it down until you are at walking speed.

I believe the main gear should be towed out slightly. I can not find the manual at the moment. Most non rigid gears are about 1/2 degree toe out. You want the gear to be pulled out when going straight but not so much as to cause drag and scrub tires. This toe in will have an effect on roll out directional control. If it is toed in, it is always trying to get on the outside of the tire and it does not ride there very well. Especially if you have a slight wing down situation..

I am available for dual when you get the gear straightened out. I am in Oklahoma City so I am not too far away. We still need to discuss the Warner operation also.

Hope this helps.
Gene Lehman
405-282-6867

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2001 1:05 pm**

'I know that no one, including yourself wants to think or say it. There
could be the possibility that the gear attach points may have been repaired
at some time and their alignment may be off slightly. Another thing that
you may take a look at, is the symmetry of the gear legs. The bad part of
all this, is removing the gear legs completely. I have my gear legs laying
on a shelf and can make some comparative measurements for you. I don't ever
remember having any ground handling problems. In addition to some of the
comments about steering, the gentleman that I bought mine from cautioned me
about lubricating the tail wheel assembly. Lube it and it will shake like
crazy, leave it dry and it didn't shake. But the consequences of that, is
wear.

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Chiappe
To:
Cc: Bob McBride
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:00 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] In search of the perfect landing

> Hello listers,
>
> I have been busy at work addressing that squawk list that came with the
ferry flight of my 24W from San Diego.
>
> I completed a teardown of the Eclipse starter -- Wow, what a beautiful
piece of machining that is -- anyway, thanks to Al Ball in CA, I went ahead
and manufactured a new seal in place of the leather original. I will post
pictures and a drawing for all of you that may have a leak on my website in
the future -- It ain't up there yet, but it will be --give me a week or so.
Ground runs were great, and all appears dry. Knocking out other oil leaks,
and now sending off my compass and MP gauge to OH.
>
> Here's my question:
> As we trucked cross country, I never did dial in a good landing. Now, I
am not new to the tail dragger, and I have plenty of experience in other
types -- My airplane is very difficult to keep on centerline. It really
wants to zig and zag -- the rudder has authority, but the mass of the tail
of the airplane required a very gentle touch. Wheel landings were very
wanderous. The best technique was to slow it down and three point it with
full flaps. Now, I hear that the 24 is "a very easy airplane to land" -- so
I am looking at reasons for this difficulty. I measured the toe-in of the
main gear -- I strapped a length of square steel tube to each wheel and
measured -- measured at 2' in front of the wheel, to 2' behind the wheel. I
came up with 2.5" TOE-IN.
>
> That would certainly explain some of the landing manners --
>
> I would like comments from the rest of you on landing your airplanes.
>
> Also, would be interested on proceedure for aligning the wheels. ---
Rumor is that you heat and bend the axel -- then have it annealed--
>
> I look forward to you inputs.
>
> Glenn Chiappe
> www.planeplace.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

'

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2001 7:08 pm**

'call CHARLIE BELL HE HAS ANSWERS ABOUT TOEIN AND TOEOUT...WALT

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Chiappe
To:
Cc: Bob McBride
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] In search of the perfect landing

> Hello listers,
>
> I have been busy at work addressing that squawk list that came with the
ferry flight of my 24W from San Diego.
>
> I completed a teardown of the Eclipse starter -- Wow, what a beautiful
piece of machining that is -- anyway, thanks to Al Ball in CA, I went ahead
and manufactured a new seal in place of the leather original. I will post
pictures and a drawing for all of you that may have a leak on my website in
the future -- It ain't up there yet, but it will be --give me a week or so.
Ground runs were great, and all appears dry. Knocking out other oil leaks,
and now sending off my compass and MP gauge to OH.
>
> Here's my question:
> As we trucked cross country, I never did dial in a good landing. Now, I
am not new to the tail dragger, and I have plenty of experience in other
types -- My airplane is very difficult to keep on centerline. It really
wants to zig and zag -- the rudder has authority, but the mass of the tail
of the airplane required a very gentle touch. Wheel landings were very
wanderous. The best technique was to slow it down and three point it with
full flaps. Now, I hear that the 24 is "a very easy airplane to land" -- so
I am looking at reasons for this difficulty. I measured the toe-in of the
main gear -- I strapped a length of square steel tube to each wheel and
measured -- measured at 2' in front of the wheel, to 2' behind the wheel. I
came up with 2.5" TOE-IN.
>
> That would certainly explain some of the landing manners --
>
> I would like comments from the rest of you on landing your airplanes.
>
> Also, would be interested on proceedure for aligning the wheels. ---
Rumor is that you heat and bend the axel -- then have it annealed--
>
> I look forward to you inputs.
>
> Glenn Chiappe
> www.planeplace.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

'

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