Page 4 of 4
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2001 8:13 pm
by ranger440c5
'I hate to pick nits but I think the expander tubes are synthetic
rubber. A look at the Fairchild and military UC-61 erection and maint.
manual hint toward this and a glance at history supports this.
Page 52 in Fairchild postwar 24 handbook states:
"The reason for this loss of brake clearance is that the SYNTHETIC
RUBBER in the expander tube, when held in an expanded position under
pressure for a length of time at low temperature, will take a
permanent set and the brake retractor springs do not have sufficient
tension to overcone this condition." It goes on to say " This will
heat the brake and soften the SYNTHETIC RUBBER in the expander tube,
allowing the brake retractor springs to return the expander tube and
brake block to the original position."
These 2 paragraphs clearly refer to the expander tubes as synthetic
though there is no other mention. The military manuals have a nearly
identical chapter.
Now as for history, as WWII broke out the Japanese pretty well had
our rubber sources or supply lines sewed up. We hadn't any sources of
any size in S. America hence we had all the rubber drives and rubber
was on the "critical material list" along with aluminum. A great
effort was put into developing a synthetic rubber as the Germans had
during WWI.
Within a short while we had a satisfactory substitute. Now most of
the tubes we all have or are available are certainly made during WWII
or later.
As for the fluid, the same manuals call out AAF #3586-C or equivalent
(Lockheed No. 5). Now under the paragraph on the alighting gear struts
the fluid called for is "The hydraulic strut should be filled with
hydraulic fluid AAF Specification 3586C which is the same fluid as
that used in the brake system.(Lockheed No.5,Lockheed No.12,
Delco No.7)." The 1939 & 1940 manuals call out "Chrysler hydraulic
brake oil".'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2001 8:44 pm
by jstreat360@aol.com
'Your right when it comes to the Text book. Mine reads the same. But I
question the fact. 5606 should not attack syn rubber. The Hayes brakes were
not of aircraft type, industrial type, and I would say most were manufactured
in the 30's prior to the WW II. I have one out to the shop, and if memory
serves me, it is natural rubber. I will go check this week.
I have been writing Technical Manuals for the Air Force for 20 years and I
have seen plenty of bad engineering and bad tech data.
Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Visit my Web Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/AIRCRAFTRESTORATIONREPAIRindex.html">Aircraft Restoration & Repair
Meet my Family:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/TreatFamilyHomePage.html">Treat Family Home Page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2001 9:49 pm
by cliffmccluney@webtv.net
'I have a couple of, as removed, tubes. How does one tell if it is
synthetic or natural rubber, if there are no markings?
Cliff McCluney'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2001 11:32 pm
by jstreat360@aol.com
'Cliff,
I need to go look at one of mine in the shop.
Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Visit my Web Site:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/AIRCRAFTRESTORATIONREPAIRindex.html">Aircraft Restoration & Repair
Meet my Family:
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/TreatFamilyHomePage.html">Treat Family Home Page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2001 4:07 pm
by WALTER ALBERT
'I inspected a new bladder and it the following markings on the outside (9
and 1/2 Goodrich E.T. BRAKE HAYES PART #D-22-26. An older one has raised
letters on the inside giving the same information..Walt
'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2001 4:25 am
by Mr & Mrs Cox
'I have just checked both my expander tubes and like Walt's older ones they
have the following on the inside looking at them with the writing the right
way up starting about 1 1/4" to the right of the "valve"
9 x 1 1/2 BF GOODRICH EXPANDER TUBE
(BFG logo) MADE IN USA HAYES PART No.
D-22-26 1886
Also there is an orange coloured stamp to the left of the "valve" which says
"Tested at 300lb Pressure"
One tube has 2 white stamps to the left of the "valve" - 169 and the other
which is on top of the1886 reads iether 30 or 130 or 80 or 180.The other
tube has a large orange EE plus another illegible stamp but no white
stamps.I presume these are inspection stamps.
The inside of the tube is rough with the moulding pattern and the outside is
smooth.
I am going to talk to some 'Rubber' specialists after the holiday is over to
see if there is a simple test to determine pure rubber from synthetic.
Frank Cox
Note: Measurements were 'eyballed'
'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2001 5:18 pm
by cliffmccluney@webtv.net
'My two used tubes read as per Frank Cox except as follows:
1. Made in Canada
2. 3508 and 4003 with 189 on top of 4003
3. no white or orange pressure test mark
Do you suppose the 4 digit numbers are either serial or batch numbers?
What is the highest number any one has found so far?
Cliff McCluney
Kerens, TX.'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2001 8:45 pm
by WALTER ALBERT
'Years ago I bought 20 or more from an outfit in Michigan but all were made
in the us. I'm helping in a little way with a gentleman here on the ranch
who just recently bought a PT19 project. I will inspect his brake equipment
to see if he has something different. Jerry Walbrun who for ages restored
some prize winning T6's is the one with the PT19 project and I think he has
joined the club. walt
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
> My two used tubes read as per Frank Cox except as follows:
>
> 1. Made in Canada
> 2. 3508 and 4003 with 189 on top of 4003
> 3. no white or orange pressure test mark
>
> Do you suppose the 4 digit numbers are either serial or batch numbers?
> What is the highest number any one has found so far?
>
> Cliff McCluney
> Kerens, TX.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
'
Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 8:11 pm
by robert Etter
'I have a observation about brake assemblies. I have two different types.
One is configured with the spring retainer clips, or as I have seen
mentioned, spring retainer/retractor clips. The other, much to my surprise
has none. The model number has a higher "dash number", and the brake pads
are cemented to the expander tube. The cement looked like a rubber cement.
I really don't have a question, but I had never seen or heard of such a
thing in brakes.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: gemme a brake part two/expander tube mat'l
> Your right when it comes to the Text book. Mine reads the same. But I
> question the fact. 5606 should not attack syn rubber. The Hayes brakes
were
> not of aircraft type, industrial type, and I would say most were
manufactured
> in the 30's prior to the WW II. I have one out to the shop, and if memory
> serves me, it is natural rubber. I will go check this week.
>
> I have been writing Technical Manuals for the Air Force for 20 years and I
> have seen plenty of bad engineering and bad tech data.
>
> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
>
> Visit my Web Site:
>
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/AIRCRAFTRESTORATIONREPAIRindex.html
">Aircraft Restoration & Repair
>
> Meet my Family:
>
http://hometown.aol.com/ftreat9191/TreatFamilyHomePage.html">Treat
Family Home Page
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
fairchildclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
'