Fairchild Club Forum

' Elton – I know this is off subject and more of a PM, but I have 28522, S/N 136 – a F24W41-A now, but a F24W40-A originally, of course, as yours would have been also.  Just noticed the proximity of N numbers.  Hope all goes well and I get to see your airplane sometime.  Thanks for putting another F24 into the air.  Mine rolled out of the Hagerstown factory on 22 July 1940, has always been in one piece, and I have all records.  Mine was converted to the 41-A in 1951 with the exchange of a Warner 165 for the original 145.  Just got it through another annual last week.  It seems like a good solid 8 to 8.5 out of 10.  Pictures can be found here:  http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N28522.html   Cheers! Tony Lowe Minneapolis MN Area   From: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 3:43 PM To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24    
Thanks Frank          That is exactly what I did Friday. And planed to get a test flight on it before I did anything else. I could correct any roll after that. Sounds like every book is a little different. I found the same thing rebuilding antique motorcycles. The military version of balancing the Indian crank to be the best . Elton N28525 From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 12:52 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24   FWIW - The the structural repair manual for C61 Airplanes (I am using it during the restoration of a UC61K 'Argus') has a shortl paragraph - INCIDENCE AND DIHEDRAL "The wing incidence (1 degree) is built into the fuselage fittings. The dihedral; (21/2 degrees) is fixed by the length of the front lift strut. Adjus toutboard incidence (reading taken on first rib outboard of lift strut fitting) by means of forked bolts in upper ends of rear lift struts. Balance out any difference between inboard and outboard readings" I took that to mean there is no washout. Frank Cox F24 Argus G-BCBL
  On 27 August 2017 at 16:58, Robert Etter robertetter@ymail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:   I can agree with that.  I has a J-3 with recommended wash out and it did good.  With a 65 Cont., I cruises at 85 mph above 10Kft, full throttle and leaned out to less than 3 gph from take off to landing.  I used the mixture function on the Stromberg.  It was different.  You could never shut it down with the mixture, pull it full on and it would just surge.  It would get a burst of fuel when the pressure in the carb reach ambient pressure.
Regarding the 24, the part I hate, is it is faster with the wheel fairings off, versus on.
Thanks for the information on the amount is change to the strut length versus degrees of change.  It confirms what I was thinking.  I figured that being within less than 0.1 degrees was close enough.  I guess that the proof in the pudding is when I get the old girl up for the first time, maybe the second or third time.   It may take that long before I get over the joy of flying the Fairchild for the first time since June 1973.  The photo of 81340, that is in the Club Photo gallery is of the Fairchild the last time she flew.  Little did it know at the time, one of the dog ears on the master rod was cracked.   It didn't take a dye check to find it.  If you look close at the steps, it looks strange.  I had transported an Aeronca aileron from Paul Valley OK to KC.
On my rigging method.  I used a dry wall "T" square and a plumb line.  It worked out that 3/4" on the long scale was equal to 0.1 degrees.
Thanks for the information.
Bob

On Saturday, August 26, 2017, 8:19:57 AM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

Hi Robert

     FYI  ½ turn = ¼ degree. I found that out yesterday. I decided to leave my wings flat twist wise. Will get a test flight on it first and then change it if I am not happy with it. I will be happy just to get it off the ground I got it in a basket. I found out over the years on the small low powered stuff that wash out can up your cruise at the same power and make the inboard stall first so you would still have good aileron control.

Thanks for the reply

Elton

 

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:35 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24

 

 

Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast.

Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.

 

I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.

 

Again, good luck

 

Bob

 

 

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hannemanelton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

 

 

I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first.

Elton

N28525


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] '

'Hi FrankIt is correct that the manual do not give any recommendations for wash out. I tested my 1943 UC61A at zero washout and the aircraft had tendency to gently stall left. As it also flew hanging on the left wing I adjusted the right to 1.5 degrees washout turned out to be a little to much so I adjusted the other wing to it flew straight. I tested now the stall and the tendency to clipp over the wing was gone and the stall now was straight forward. So try it first at zero and then do the adjustments to give washout.Also the influence for the engine torque was gone.Right or wrong it fly’s now nice and clean. I never recorded if the speed was influenced.  SE-AWS 1943 UC61Apaul  Paul PinatoÖstergatan 18426151 LandskronaSweden  paul.pinato@telia.com  Från: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Skickat: den 27 augusti 2017 21:52
Till: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Ämne: Re: RE: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24    FWIW - The the structural repair manual for C61 Airplanes (I am using it during the restoration of a UC61K 'Argus') has a shortl paragraph -INCIDENCE AND DIHEDRAL"The wing incidence (1 degree) is built into the fuselage fittings. The dihedral; (21/2 degrees) is fixed by the length of the front lift strut. Adjus toutboard incidence (reading taken on first rib outboard of lift strut fitting) by means of forked bolts in upper ends of rear lift struts. Balance out any difference between inboard and outboard readings"I took that to mean there is no washout.Frank CoxF24 Argus G-BCBL
   On 27 August 2017 at 16:58, Robert Etter robertetter@ymail.com [fairchildclub] wrote:

  I can agree with that.  I has a J-3 with recommended wash out and it did good.  With a 65 Cont., I cruises at 85 mph above 10Kft, full throttle and leaned out to less than 3 gph from take off to landing.  I used the mixture function on the Stromberg.  It was different.  You could never shut it down with the mixture, pull it full on and it would just surge.  It would get a burst of fuel when the pressure in the carb reach ambient pressure.
Regarding the 24, the part I hate, is it is faster with the wheel fairings off, versus on.
Thanks for the information on the amount is change to the strut length versus degrees of change.  It confirms what I was thinking.  I figured that being within less than 0.1 degrees was close enough.  I guess that the proof in the pudding is when I get the old girl up for the first time, maybe the second or third time.   It may take that long before I get over the joy of flying the Fairchild for the first time since June 1973.  The photo of 81340, that is in the Club Photo gallery is of the Fairchild the last time she flew.  Little did it know at the time, one of the dog ears on the master rod was cracked.   It didn't take a dye check to find it.  If you look close at the steps, it looks strange.  I had transported an Aeronca aileron from Paul Valley OK to KC.
On my rigging method.  I used a dry wall "T" square and a plumb line.  It worked out that 3/4" on the long scale was equal to 0.1 degrees.
Thanks for the information.
Bob

On Saturday, August 26, 2017, 8:19:57 AM PDT, Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

Hi Robert

     FYI  ½ turn = ¼ degree. I found that out yesterday. I decided to leave my wings flat twist wise. Will get a test flight on it first and then change it if I am not happy with it. I will be happy just to get it off the ground I got it in a basket. I found out over the years on the small low powered stuff that wash out can up your cruise at the same power and make the inboard stall first so you would still have good aileron control.

Thanks for the reply

Elton

 

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 7:35 AM
To: Elton Hanneman elton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub]
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] RE-Wing washout on F24

 

 

Personally speaking, washing out only wing doesn't seem right.  It sound like worrying about "P Factor" in a J-3.  I was told to rig my wings on a 46W24 the same.  To the best of my knowledge, mine right wing is less than 0.1 degrees to the positive, of the left.  I stopped there thinking that 1/2 turn more would make it more than a fraction of a degree the other way.  When and if it flys straight and level hands off, you will hear screams of joy all the way to the east coast.

Oh, my 24 isn't stock.  It is sort of Frankenstein-ish.  Right wing is civilian, left wing is UC-61, motor is off a later UC-61, rudder & vertical fin..don't know.  The only thing that I know is fuselage & data plate are OE.

 

I hope that your rigging comes out to the good.  I wouldn't be surprised to find other printings of the same manual would say something different.

 

Again, good luck

 

Bob

 

 

On Friday, August 25, 2017, 1:41:11 PM PDT, Elton Hannemanelton@hanneman.us [fairchildclub] wrote:

 

 

 

I am hanging my wings on a 1940-41A and wondering if anyone has tried putting washout in.  The book I have just leaves the right flat and wash the left in One degree to take care of torque. That seems like it is just asking that wing to stall first.

Elton

N28525


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