Fairchild Club Forum

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:37 am**

'Definitely use a soldering iron for the hole, but I would certainly always first glue on a grommet.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley
Sent: 10 March 2011 03:33 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Why use a Grommet at all. Melt the hole in your polyesther fabric with a small soldering iron.

Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963

www.eaa75.com

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

I don't think bulkiness will have much affect on anything. Flat washer type would
work fine too but make sure the hole is right under the lowest aft surface where
moisture could puddle.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV

----- Original Message -----
From: Jp Lorie
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Thus far, I have installed only seaplane grommets on the wing (opening to
the rear!). When I posted the question I was referring to washer style drain
grommets. Thanks for the reference. Would you suggest sea grommets on the
control surfaces as well? Or will they be perhaps too bulky?
JP.Lorie
Florida

________________________________
From: DAVID STROUD
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 9:41:00 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Just wondering, JP...if the seaplane grommets are on the bottom and rear of the
surfaces with
the drain hole pointing towards the rear, under what conditions could ram air
enter. If anything I
think it might actually create some suction.

Like Hugh said, check the manual from your supplier.

By the way, AC43.13.1B says ....Install drain grommets on the underside of all
components at

the lowest point in each fabric panel when the aircraft is in stored attitude.
Earlier, it says....
atmospheric temperature changes cause the humidity in the air to condense on the
inside of aircraft
surfaces in all low areas.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Jp Lorie wrote:

From: Jp Lorie
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:28 PM

Hi,
I am trying to finish my long overdue F-24W46. Have installed the fabric and the

wing seaplane grommets on the wings.
The question is should I install drain grommets on the ailerons and elevator or
not? It appears to me that as those control surfaces deflect into the wind air
will be rammed into the drain hole and cause ballooning of the control surface.
As this is new to me, I need your response.

Thank you

JP.Lorie
Florida

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'

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:04 am**

'Well, because the grommet just looks better, plus they ensure a consistent hole diameter. Done without a grommet, the holes tend to elongate, become oval, and not line up in a good sight line. In addition, cover the grommet with a doily, a nice 2 inch round patch of preshrunk light fabric will hold the grommet in place when the fabric cement eventually becomes brittle and fails. Aluminum grommets are wonderfully thin. We make our doilys with a die-cutter from the scrapbooking store so they are consistent and we can turn out a lot of them quickly.

Ashley Messenger

----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Why use a Grommet at all. Melt the hole in your polyesther fabric with a small soldering iron.

Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963

www.eaa75.com

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

I don't think bulkiness will have much affect on anything. Flat washer type would
work fine too but make sure the hole is right under the lowest aft surface where
moisture could puddle.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: Jp Lorie
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Thus far, I have installed only seaplane grommets on the wing (opening to
the rear!). When I posted the question I was referring to washer style drain
grommets. Thanks for the reference. Would you suggest sea grommets on the
control surfaces as well? Or will they be perhaps too bulky?
JP.Lorie
Florida

________________________________
From: DAVID STROUD
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 9:41:00 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Just wondering, JP...if the seaplane grommets are on the bottom and rear of the
surfaces with
the drain hole pointing towards the rear, under what conditions could ram air
enter. If anything I
think it might actually create some suction.

Like Hugh said, check the manual from your supplier.

By the way, AC43.13.1B says ....Install drain grommets on the underside of all
components at

the lowest point in each fabric panel when the aircraft is in stored attitude.
Earlier, it says....
atmospheric temperature changes cause the humidity in the air to condense on the
inside of aircraft
surfaces in all low areas.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Jp Lorie wrote:

From: Jp Lorie
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:28 PM

Hi,
I am trying to finish my long overdue F-24W46. Have installed the fabric and the

wing seaplane grommets on the wings.
The question is should I install drain grommets on the ailerons and elevator or
not? It appears to me that as those control surfaces deflect into the wind air
will be rammed into the drain hole and cause ballooning of the control surface.
As this is new to me, I need your response.

Thank you

JP.Lorie
Florida

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11
07:25:00

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'

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:05 am**

'I am with Ashley completely on this one although I don't do that much
covering that I want production quantities. I trace a circle on a piece of
fabric with a circular stencil of the right size and cut it out with pinking
shears. Makes the application of the grommet more secure and it just looks
the business beautifully

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Ashley Messenger
Sent: 10 March 2011 04:05 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Well, because the grommet just looks better, plus they ensure a consistent
hole diameter. Done without a grommet, the holes tend to elongate, become
oval, and not line up in a good sight line. In addition, cover the grommet
with a doily, a nice 2 inch round patch of preshrunk light fabric will hold
the grommet in place when the fabric cement eventually becomes brittle and
fails. Aluminum grommets are wonderfully thin. We make our doilys with a
die-cutter from the scrapbooking store so they are consistent and we can
turn out a lot of them quickly.

Ashley Messenger

----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Why use a Grommet at all. Melt the hole in your polyesther fabric with a
small soldering iron.

Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963

www.eaa75.com

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

I don't think bulkiness will have much affect on anything. Flat washer
type would
work fine too but make sure the hole is right under the lowest aft surface
where
moisture could puddle.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: Jp Lorie
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Thus far, I have installed only seaplane grommets on the wing (opening to
the rear!). When I posted the question I was referring to washer style
drain
grommets. Thanks for the reference. Would you suggest sea grommets on the
control surfaces as well? Or will they be perhaps too bulky?
JP.Lorie
Florida

________________________________
From: DAVID STROUD
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 9:41:00 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Just wondering, JP...if the seaplane grommets are on the bottom and rear
of the
surfaces with
the drain hole pointing towards the rear, under what conditions could ram
air
enter. If anything I
think it might actually create some suction.

Like Hugh said, check the manual from your supplier.

By the way, AC43.13.1B says ....Install drain grommets on the underside of
all
components at

the lowest point in each fabric panel when the aircraft is in stored
attitude.
Earlier, it says....
atmospheric temperature changes cause the humidity in the air to condense
on the
inside of aircraft
surfaces in all low areas.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Jp Lorie wrote:

From: Jp Lorie
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:28 PM

Hi,
I am trying to finish my long overdue F-24W46. Have installed the fabric
and the

wing seaplane grommets on the wings.
The question is should I install drain grommets on the ailerons and
elevator or
not? It appears to me that as those control surfaces deflect into the wind
air
will be rammed into the drain hole and cause ballooning of the control
surface.
As this is new to me, I need your response.

Thank you

JP.Lorie
Florida

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11
07:25:00

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07:25:00

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Yahoo! Groups Links

_____

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:15 am**

'USE a washer as a template when melting.

-----Original Message-----
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Ashley Messenger
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:05 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Well, because the grommet just looks better, plus they ensure a consistent
hole diameter. Done without a grommet, the holes tend to elongate, become
oval, and not line up in a good sight line. In addition, cover the grommet
with a doily, a nice 2 inch round patch of preshrunk light fabric will hold
the grommet in place when the fabric cement eventually becomes brittle and
fails. Aluminum grommets are wonderfully thin. We make our doilys with a
die-cutter from the scrapbooking store so they are consistent and we can
turn out a lot of them quickly.

Ashley Messenger

----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Why use a Grommet at all. Melt the hole in your polyesther fabric with a
small soldering iron.

Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963

www.eaa75.com

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

I don't think bulkiness will have much affect on anything. Flat washer
type would
work fine too but make sure the hole is right under the lowest aft surface
where
moisture could puddle.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: Jp Lorie
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Thus far, I have installed only seaplane grommets on the wing (opening to
the rear!). When I posted the question I was referring to washer style
drain
grommets. Thanks for the reference. Would you suggest sea grommets on the
control surfaces as well? Or will they be perhaps too bulky?
JP.Lorie
Florida

________________________________
From: DAVID STROUD
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 9:41:00 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Just wondering, JP...if the seaplane grommets are on the bottom and rear
of the
surfaces with
the drain hole pointing towards the rear, under what conditions could ram
air
enter. If anything I
think it might actually create some suction.

Like Hugh said, check the manual from your supplier.

By the way, AC43.13.1B says ....Install drain grommets on the underside of
all
components at

the lowest point in each fabric panel when the aircraft is in stored
attitude.
Earlier, it says....
atmospheric temperature changes cause the humidity in the air to condense
on the
inside of aircraft
surfaces in all low areas.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Jp Lorie wrote:

From: Jp Lorie
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:28 PM

Hi,
I am trying to finish my long overdue F-24W46. Have installed the fabric
and the

wing seaplane grommets on the wings.
The question is should I install drain grommets on the ailerons and
elevator or
not? It appears to me that as those control surfaces deflect into the wind
air
will be rammed into the drain hole and cause ballooning of the control
surface.
As this is new to me, I need your response.

Thank you

JP.Lorie
Florida

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11
07:25:00

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Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11
07:25:00

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'

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:49 pm**

'For the prefectionist, it is best to layout round patches (doillies) using a pencil compass divider so one knows exactly where the the center is; or transfer the center mark from a pattern layed out with the pencil compass.

--- On Thu, 3/10/11, Ashley Messenger wrote:

From: Ashley Messenger
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 2:04 PM

Well, because the grommet just looks better, plus they ensure a consistent hole diameter. Done without a grommet, the holes tend to elongate, become oval, and not line up in a good sight line. In addition, cover the grommet with a doily, a nice 2 inch round patch of preshrunk light fabric will hold the grommet in place when the fabric cement eventually becomes brittle and fails. Aluminum grommets are wonderfully thin. We make our doilys with a die-cutter from the scrapbooking store so they are consistent and we can turn out a lot of them quickly.

Ashley Messenger

----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Why use a Grommet at all. Melt the hole in your polyesther fabric with a small soldering iron.

Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963

www.eaa75.com

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

I don't think bulkiness will have much affect on anything. Flat washer type would
work fine too but make sure the hole is right under the lowest aft surface where
moisture could puddle.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV
----- Original Message -----
From: Jp Lorie
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Thus far, I have installed only seaplane grommets on the wing (opening to
the rear!). When I posted the question I was referring to washer style drain
grommets. Thanks for the reference. Would you suggest sea grommets on the
control surfaces as well? Or will they be perhaps too bulky?
JP.Lorie
Florida

________________________________
From: DAVID STROUD
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 9:41:00 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?

Just wondering, JP...if the seaplane grommets are on the bottom and rear of the
surfaces with
the drain hole pointing towards the rear, under what conditions could ram air
enter. If anything I
think it might actually create some suction.

Like Hugh said, check the manual from your supplier.

By the way, AC43.13.1B says ....Install drain grommets on the underside of all
components at

the lowest point in each fabric panel when the aircraft is in stored attitude.
Earlier, it says....
atmospheric temperature changes cause the humidity in the air to condense on the
inside of aircraft
surfaces in all low areas.

David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 replica
under construction C-FYXV

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Jp Lorie wrote:

From: Jp Lorie
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:28 PM

Hi,
I am trying to finish my long overdue F-24W46. Have installed the fabric and the

wing seaplane grommets on the wings.
The question is should I install drain grommets on the ailerons and elevator or
not? It appears to me that as those control surfaces deflect into the wind air
will be rammed into the drain hole and cause ballooning of the control surface.
As this is new to me, I need your response.

Thank you

JP.Lorie
Florida

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11
07:25:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11 07:25:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:54 pm**

'I particularly like the clean look and simplicity of the melted hole on
control surfaces.

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Cy Galley wrote:

>
>
> USE a washer as a template when melting.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Ashley Messenger
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:05 AM
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
>
> Well, because the grommet just looks better, plus they ensure a consistent
> hole diameter. Done without a grommet, the holes tend to elongate, become
> oval, and not line up in a good sight line. In addition, cover the grommet
> with a doily, a nice 2 inch round patch of preshrunk light fabric will hold
> the grommet in place when the fabric cement eventually becomes brittle and
> fails. Aluminum grommets are wonderfully thin. We make our doilys with a
> die-cutter from the scrapbooking store so they are consistent and we can
> turn out a lot of them quickly.
>
> Ashley Messenger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cy Galley
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:32 AM
> Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
>
> Why use a Grommet at all. Melt the hole in your polyesther fabric with a
> small soldering iron.
>
> Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>
> A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963
>
> www.eaa75.com
>
> From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of DAVID STROUD
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 AM
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
>
> I don't think bulkiness will have much affect on anything. Flat washer
> type would
> work fine too but make sure the hole is right under the lowest aft surface
> where
> moisture could puddle.
>
> David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
> Christavia C-FDWS
> Fairchild 51 replica
> under construction C-FYXV
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jp Lorie
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
>
> Thus far, I have installed only seaplane grommets on the wing (opening to
> the rear!). When I posted the question I was referring to washer style
> drain
> grommets. Thanks for the reference. Would you suggest sea grommets on the
> control surfaces as well? Or will they be perhaps too bulky?
> JP.Lorie
> Florida
>
> ________________________________
> From: DAVID STROUD
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 9:41:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
>
> Just wondering, JP...if the seaplane grommets are on the bottom and rear
> of the
> surfaces with
> the drain hole pointing towards the rear, under what conditions could ram
> air
> enter. If anything I
> think it might actually create some suction.
>
> Like Hugh said, check the manual from your supplier.
>
> By the way, AC43.13.1B says ....Install drain grommets on the underside of
> all
> components at
>
> the lowest point in each fabric panel when the aircraft is in stored
> attitude.
> Earlier, it says....
> atmospheric temperature changes cause the humidity in the air to condense
> on the
> inside of aircraft
> surfaces in all low areas.
>
> David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
> Christavia C-FDWS
> Fairchild 51 replica
> under construction C-FYXV
>
> --- On Tue, 3/8/11, Jp Lorie > wrote:
>
> From: Jp Lorie
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Fabric covering Qestion?
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:28 PM
>
> Hi,
> I am trying to finish my long overdue F-24W46. Have installed the fabric
> and the
>
> wing seaplane grommets on the wings.
> The question is should I install drain grommets on the ailerons and
> elevator or
> not? It appears to me that as those control surfaces deflect into the wind
> air
> will be rammed into the drain hole and cause ballooning of the control
> surface.
> As this is new to me, I need your response.
>
> Thank you
>
> JP.Lorie
> Florida
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11
> 07:25:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3493 - Release Date: 03/09/11
> 07:25:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Curt Kinchen
ptcurt@gmail.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

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