Fairchild Club Forum

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:41 pm**

'Hello Tom,

I presume you have a wooden prop. Make certain that the bolts are properly torqued as called for by the prop manufacturer, usually twice annually.

Regards, John Duncan

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Mueller
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 5:50 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Prop Hub

Thanks for the input fellow fliers, All I can say, I've got less that
6 hrs in this monster and just finished my tail dragger
instruction . if I hadn't been so consumed with thoughts of crashing
and burning my much loved sixty year old Fairchild ,not to mention
the hair raising 3 point landing training,
I probably would have noticed something like a little prop shake.
Anyway, it definitely is a prop hub problem. I can tell from
the "work marks" on the inside of wood hub. Something just not lining
up.

BUELL, thanks for the photos. There was an identical unit on ebay
about a week ago, it didn't sell. Supposedly new old stock.
Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:02 pm**

'Yes you're right. I found, on disassembly, three of the eight prop
flange nuts were under torque. One wasn't even touching the washer
because it had bottomed out when it ran out of threads. It obviously
was a wrong bolt length. It's very discouraging, such carelessness.
This hub has a metal id tag attached identifying it as a Warner #8559.
If anybody can come up with a schematic of this hub it would be
greatly appreciated. I think it's been assembled wrong.

Tom'

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:03 pm**

'Tom,
Bob is right I had forgoton that some used the small dia. hub. The
one in the UC61parts book may be for the small hub(it says for warner
engines in my book) and the rear cone part no. may be wrong for the one you
have. The diagram looks the same as the one I have as far as the set-up. The
Hub I have is the large one and it is correct for the prop I have.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Haas"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: [fairchildclub] Prop Hub

> As I recall there are three prop hubs that fit the Ranger
> shaft. They all have detachable cones, they all have
>
> Inner and outer flanges and have the nine grooves with a blank as the
> shaft
> has. There are two different prop bolt mounting
>
> diameters You must identify. the hub you have and check the sequence of
> cones and flanges as well as the direction of thrust..
>
> Bob Haas.
>
> _____
>
> From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of cgalley
> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 1:55 PM
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Prop Hub
>
>
>
> Why not follow the manual?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Mueller
> To: fairchildclub@
> yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 12:25 PM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Prop Hub
>
> I've recently had the prop off for inspection. This was due to a
> slight vibration felt in the 1500 rpm range. The prop did check out ok
> balance wise, and I'm suspecting one of the eight flange nuts had been
> improperly torque. The question I have, I see no front cone for this
> hub set up. This is off a 200hp ranger with wood prop. When I took it
> off I found one spacer at the rear, one cone, the hub flange section
> with long portion facing forward, then the large prop nut holding the
> whole thing together. The manual indicate I should have a cone on the
> front side also. Anybody...thanks
> Tom
> Hanford,Ca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:56 am**

'I've added in the Files area the AN5017 prop hub spec. It's
representative of the Warner hubs(large) used on the Ranger.

Curt Kinchen

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mueller"
wrote:

>
> Yes you're right. I found, on disassembly, three of the eight prop
> flange nuts were under torque. One wasn't even touching the washer
> because it had bottomed out when it ran out of threads. It obviously
> was a wrong bolt length. It's very discouraging, such carelessness.
> This hub has a metal id tag attached identifying it as a Warner #8559.
> If anybody can come up with a schematic of this hub it would be
> greatly appreciated. I think it's been assembled wrong.
>
> Tom
>

'

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:06 pm**

'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
wrote:

>
> I've added in the Files area the AN5017 prop hub spec. It's
> representative of the Warner hubs(large) used on the Ranger.
>
> Curt Kinchen

Thanks Curt,
I'm laboring over the schematics now. I'm not ready to buy a whole new
hub setup, but it's sure starting to look like I have a SAE #10
hanging on the nose of this Fairchild. It has a metal tag indicating
it's a Warner
Part # 8599 (an alternate hub for the 9700) and it's supposed to have
a special front cone, Part # 8587.
I just don't know what that part is quite yet.
Tom'

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:50 am**

'I am chiming in a bit late here but perhaps here is something of
use..... There may be confusion among #20 wood prop hubs. Correct me
if I am wrong but the file loaded for the AN5017 hub design is
for "long" #20 spline hubs, commonly called "Air Corps". These are
for Continental W670, Jacobs, and Wrights. The Warner 145,165 and
Ranger "L" series used a "short" #20 spline. The long is capable of
carrying a 6.5" thick prop hub and the short 4.5" hub. You will see
this on the Sensenich 86AB 54 prop, it has big lumps to get the
airfoil at the hub area and then chopped down to get to the 4.5"
flange to flange dimension for the Ranger short hub. All the short
hubs I have seen do not use a front cone, there is instead a single
ring to slip on to the crank and then the nut, thus the nut will
not "pull" the hub when removing. To verify all this the simple
thing one must look at is the bolt diameter....the long #20 has
7/16bolts and the short has 3/8 bolts.
The wild card in all this is there was a pre-war hub that looks
like the manual with the solid flange on the front and the crush
plate on the rear. I have seen one of these on a Ranger 24 in KY
(owner: Webster?).This one I do not know if used a front cone or not.
You would never even get an AN 5017 hub on a Ranger as they are way
too long, a solid 1.5" too long. I don't believe Ranger ever used a
#10...they originally had tapered then went to the short 20.
Does all this sound correct?

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mueller"
wrote:

>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
> wrote:
> >
> > I've added in the Files area the AN5017 prop hub spec. It's
> > representative of the Warner hubs(large) used on the Ranger.
> >
> > Curt Kinchen
>
> Thanks Curt,
> I'm laboring over the schematics now. I'm not ready to buy a whole

new

> hub setup, but it's sure starting to look like I have a SAE #10
> hanging on the nose of this Fairchild. It has a metal tag

indicating

> it's a Warner
> Part # 8599 (an alternate hub for the 9700) and it's supposed to

have

> a special front cone, Part # 8587.
> I just don't know what that part is quite yet.
> Tom
>

'

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:11 am**

'It does sound correct to me. My recollection is also that the small hubs do
not use
a front cone. The AN5017 I posted is simply for a visual reference(not
dimensional). The cones used on it are, however, correct for the hubs used
on the Ranger.

Curt Kinchen

>From: "ranger440c5"
>Reply-To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Prop Hub
>Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:48:40 -0000
>
>I am chiming in a bit late here but perhaps here is something of
>use..... There may be confusion among #20 wood prop hubs. Correct me
>if I am wrong but the file loaded for the AN5017 hub design is
>for "long" #20 spline hubs, commonly called "Air Corps". These are
>for Continental W670, Jacobs, and Wrights. The Warner 145,165 and
>Ranger "L" series used a "short" #20 spline. The long is capable of
>carrying a 6.5" thick prop hub and the short 4.5" hub. You will see
>this on the Sensenich 86AB 54 prop, it has big lumps to get the
>airfoil at the hub area and then chopped down to get to the 4.5"
>flange to flange dimension for the Ranger short hub. All the short
>hubs I have seen do not use a front cone, there is instead a single
>ring to slip on to the crank and then the nut, thus the nut will
>not "pull" the hub when removing. To verify all this the simple
>thing one must look at is the bolt diameter....the long #20 has
>7/16bolts and the short has 3/8 bolts.
> The wild card in all this is there was a pre-war hub that looks
>like the manual with the solid flange on the front and the crush
>plate on the rear. I have seen one of these on a Ranger 24 in KY
>(owner: Webster?).This one I do not know if used a front cone or not.
> You would never even get an AN 5017 hub on a Ranger as they are way
>too long, a solid 1.5" too long. I don't believe Ranger ever used a
>#10...they originally had tapered then went to the short 20.
> Does all this sound correct?
>
>
>--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mueller"
>wrote:
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I've added in the Files area the AN5017 prop hub spec. It's
> > > representative of the Warner hubs(large) used on the Ranger.
> > >
> > > Curt Kinchen
> >
> > Thanks Curt,
> > I'm laboring over the schematics now. I'm not ready to buy a whole
>new
> > hub setup, but it's sure starting to look like I have a SAE #10
> > hanging on the nose of this Fairchild. It has a metal tag
>indicating
> > it's a Warner
> > Part # 8599 (an alternate hub for the 9700) and it's supposed to
>have
> > a special front cone, Part # 8587.
> > I just don't know what that part is quite yet.
> > Tom
> >
>
>
>
>
>

'

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:41 am**

'That is correct. They still use the AN5008-20 bronze rear cone. But
none of the AN50XX series parts fit...front cone, nut, retaining
ring, bolts, nuts, etc. Thanks for posting the data, I had not seen
that before and it is helpfull with a #30 I am trying to ID. Would
you have a chart or specs on the AN5008-XX rear cones? Am curious
about these as have seen two types, one with a fully tapered OD and
one with a tapered seat about 1/2" long and then a straight OD for
the remaining length. Wouldn't have data on this would you?

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
wrote:

>
> It does sound correct to me. My recollection is also that the

small hubs do

> not use
> a front cone. The AN5017 I posted is simply for a visual reference

(not

> dimensional). The cones used on it are, however, correct for the

hubs used

> on the Ranger.
>
> Curt Kinchen
>
>
> >From: "ranger440c5"
> >Reply-To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> >To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Prop Hub
> >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:48:40 -0000
> >
> >I am chiming in a bit late here but perhaps here is something of
> >use..... There may be confusion among #20 wood prop hubs. Correct

me

> >if I am wrong but the file loaded for the AN5017 hub design is
> >for "long" #20 spline hubs, commonly called "Air Corps". These are
> >for Continental W670, Jacobs, and Wrights. The Warner 145,165 and
> >Ranger "L" series used a "short" #20 spline. The long is capable

of

> >carrying a 6.5" thick prop hub and the short 4.5" hub. You will

see

> >this on the Sensenich 86AB 54 prop, it has big lumps to get the
> >airfoil at the hub area and then chopped down to get to the 4.5"
> >flange to flange dimension for the Ranger short hub. All the short
> >hubs I have seen do not use a front cone, there is instead a

single

> >ring to slip on to the crank and then the nut, thus the nut will
> >not "pull" the hub when removing. To verify all this the simple
> >thing one must look at is the bolt diameter....the long #20 has
> >7/16bolts and the short has 3/8 bolts.
> > The wild card in all this is there was a pre-war hub that looks
> >like the manual with the solid flange on the front and the crush
> >plate on the rear. I have seen one of these on a Ranger 24 in KY
> >(owner: Webster?).This one I do not know if used a front cone or

not.

> > You would never even get an AN 5017 hub on a Ranger as they are

way

> >too long, a solid 1.5" too long. I don't believe Ranger ever used

a

> >#10...they originally had tapered then went to the short 20.
> > Does all this sound correct?
> >
> >
> >--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mueller"
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've added in the Files area the AN5017 prop hub spec. It's
> > > > representative of the Warner hubs(large) used on the Ranger.
> > > >
> > > > Curt Kinchen
> > >
> > > Thanks Curt,
> > > I'm laboring over the schematics now. I'm not ready to buy a

whole

> >new
> > > hub setup, but it's sure starting to look like I have a SAE

#10

> > > hanging on the nose of this Fairchild. It has a metal tag
> >indicating
> > > it's a Warner
> > > Part # 8599 (an alternate hub for the 9700) and it's supposed

to

> >have
> > > a special front cone, Part # 8587.
> > > I just don't know what that part is quite yet.
> > > Tom
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

'

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:23 am**

'I have also seen both. Some seem to have the straight section to account
for the spacer sometimes necessary with small hubs, etc. Interestingly they
carry the same AN5008-20 number.

Here's the specs for the cones attached.

>From: "ranger440c5"
>Reply-To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Prop Hub
>Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:30:29 -0000
>
>That is correct. They still use the AN5008-20 bronze rear cone. But
>none of the AN50XX series parts fit...front cone, nut, retaining
>ring, bolts, nuts, etc. Thanks for posting the data, I had not seen
>that before and it is helpfull with a #30 I am trying to ID. Would
>you have a chart or specs on the AN5008-XX rear cones? Am curious
>about these as have seen two types, one with a fully tapered OD and
>one with a tapered seat about 1/2" long and then a straight OD for
>the remaining length. Wouldn't have data on this would you?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
>wrote:
> >
> > It does sound correct to me. My recollection is also that the
>small hubs do
> > not use
> > a front cone. The AN5017 I posted is simply for a visual reference
>(not
> > dimensional). The cones used on it are, however, correct for the
>hubs used
> > on the Ranger.
> >
> > Curt Kinchen
> >
> >
> > >From: "ranger440c5"
> > >Reply-To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Prop Hub
> > >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:48:40 -0000
> > >
> > >I am chiming in a bit late here but perhaps here is something of
> > >use..... There may be confusion among #20 wood prop hubs. Correct
>me
> > >if I am wrong but the file loaded for the AN5017 hub design is
> > >for "long" #20 spline hubs, commonly called "Air Corps". These are
> > >for Continental W670, Jacobs, and Wrights. The Warner 145,165 and
> > >Ranger "L" series used a "short" #20 spline. The long is capable
>of
> > >carrying a 6.5" thick prop hub and the short 4.5" hub. You will
>see
> > >this on the Sensenich 86AB 54 prop, it has big lumps to get the
> > >airfoil at the hub area and then chopped down to get to the 4.5"
> > >flange to flange dimension for the Ranger short hub. All the short
> > >hubs I have seen do not use a front cone, there is instead a
>single
> > >ring to slip on to the crank and then the nut, thus the nut will
> > >not "pull" the hub when removing. To verify all this the simple
> > >thing one must look at is the bolt diameter....the long #20 has
> > >7/16bolts and the short has 3/8 bolts.
> > > The wild card in all this is there was a pre-war hub that looks
> > >like the manual with the solid flange on the front and the crush
> > >plate on the rear. I have seen one of these on a Ranger 24 in KY
> > >(owner: Webster?).This one I do not know if used a front cone or
>not.
> > > You would never even get an AN 5017 hub on a Ranger as they are
>way
> > >too long, a solid 1.5" too long. I don't believe Ranger ever used
>a
> > >#10...they originally had tapered then went to the short 20.
> > > Does all this sound correct?
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mueller"
> > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've added in the Files area the AN5017 prop hub spec. It's
> > > > > representative of the Warner hubs(large) used on the Ranger.
> > > > >
> > > > > Curt Kinchen
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Curt,
> > > > I'm laboring over the schematics now. I'm not ready to buy a
>whole
> > >new
> > > > hub setup, but it's sure starting to look like I have a SAE
>#10
> > > > hanging on the nose of this Fairchild. It has a metal tag
> > >indicating
> > > > it's a Warner
> > > > Part # 8599 (an alternate hub for the 9700) and it's supposed
>to
> > >have
> > > > a special front cone, Part # 8587.
> > > > I just don't know what that part is quite yet.
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:13 am**

'Curt,
Pardon my ignorance.....where is the attachment with the cone
specs? I am failing to find it!!

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
wrote:

>
> I have also seen both. Some seem to have the straight section to

account

> for the spacer sometimes necessary with small hubs, etc.

Interestingly they

> carry the same AN5008-20 number.
>
> Here's the specs for the cones attached.
>
>
> >From: "ranger440c5"
> >Reply-To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> >To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Prop Hub
> >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:30:29 -0000
> >
> >That is correct. They still use the AN5008-20 bronze rear cone.

But

> >none of the AN50XX series parts fit...front cone, nut, retaining
> >ring, bolts, nuts, etc. Thanks for posting the data, I had not

seen

> >that before and it is helpfull with a #30 I am trying to ID. Would
> >you have a chart or specs on the AN5008-XX rear cones? Am curious
> >about these as have seen two types, one with a fully tapered OD

and

> >one with a tapered seat about 1/2" long and then a straight OD for
> >the remaining length. Wouldn't have data on this would you?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > It does sound correct to me. My recollection is also that the
> >small hubs do
> > > not use
> > > a front cone. The AN5017 I posted is simply for a visual

reference

> >(not
> > > dimensional). The cones used on it are, however, correct for

the

> >hubs used
> > > on the Ranger.
> > >
> > > Curt Kinchen
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "ranger440c5"
> > > >Reply-To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Prop Hub
> > > >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:48:40 -0000
> > > >
> > > >I am chiming in a bit late here but perhaps here is something

of

> > > >use..... There may be confusion among #20 wood prop hubs.

Correct

> >me
> > > >if I am wrong but the file loaded for the AN5017 hub design is
> > > >for "long" #20 spline hubs, commonly called "Air Corps".

These are

> > > >for Continental W670, Jacobs, and Wrights. The Warner 145,165

and

> > > >Ranger "L" series used a "short" #20 spline. The long is

capable

> >of
> > > >carrying a 6.5" thick prop hub and the short 4.5" hub. You

will

> >see
> > > >this on the Sensenich 86AB 54 prop, it has big lumps to get

the

> > > >airfoil at the hub area and then chopped down to get to the

4.5"

> > > >flange to flange dimension for the Ranger short hub. All the

short

> > > >hubs I have seen do not use a front cone, there is instead a
> >single
> > > >ring to slip on to the crank and then the nut, thus the nut

will

> > > >not "pull" the hub when removing. To verify all this the

simple

> > > >thing one must look at is the bolt diameter....the long #20

has

> > > >7/16bolts and the short has 3/8 bolts.
> > > > The wild card in all this is there was a pre-war hub that

looks

> > > >like the manual with the solid flange on the front and the

crush

> > > >plate on the rear. I have seen one of these on a Ranger 24 in

KY

> > > >(owner: Webster?).This one I do not know if used a front cone

or

> >not.
> > > > You would never even get an AN 5017 hub on a Ranger as they

are

> >way
> > > >too long, a solid 1.5" too long. I don't believe Ranger ever

used

> >a
> > > >#10...they originally had tapered then went to the short 20.
> > > > Does all this sound correct?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mueller"

> > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Kinchen"

> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've added in the Files area the AN5017 prop hub spec.

It's

> > > > > > representative of the Warner hubs(large) used on the

Ranger.

> > > > > >
> > > > > > Curt Kinchen
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Curt,
> > > > > I'm laboring over the schematics now. I'm not ready to buy

a

> >whole
> > > >new
> > > > > hub setup, but it's sure starting to look like I have a

SAE

> >#10
> > > > > hanging on the nose of this Fairchild. It has a metal tag
> > > >indicating
> > > > > it's a Warner
> > > > > Part # 8599 (an alternate hub for the 9700) and it's

supposed

> >to
> > > >have
> > > > > a special front cone, Part # 8587.
> > > > > I just don't know what that part is quite yet.
> > > > > Tom
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

'