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Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:00 am
by Michael Denest
'Don,
Sorry but I have to disagree with your statements.

First off, your IA, if he has not already done so,
should have put together a document package with
copies of Approval A-706 which covers the F24R46 and
F24R46A series of airplanes. It states that the R46
uses the 6-440-C2 (175hp) engine. The R46A uses the
6-440-C5 engine (200hp). It also states that there is
no physical difference between each model of aircraft.
Also you should have a copy of Approval E-216 which
covers all of the 6-440 series engines. This document
outlines the differences between each engine and what
accessories are approved for use on the engine. The
Ranger parts manual shows what parts are used for the
175 and 200 hp engines and should be part of the
package. If necessary, sections of the engine
assembly manual can be part of the package to show
that there is no differences between the two. There
should have been prepared two copies of a FAA Form 337
Major Alteration field approval to install parts to
increase the hp to 200. An alteration of the engine
data plate is also required to indicate the timing
change from 22 degrees BTDC to 25 degrees BTDC should
be done. Two copies of a FAA Form 337 Major
Alteration field approval should be completed to
install the 200hp engine on the airframe. Your
registration and airworthiness certificate must also
be changed to reflect the model number change from
F24R46 to F24R46A as well. This information along
with the Fairchild Service Letter documenting the
engine model numbers between civilian and military
should also be a part of this package and plenty of
information for the ASI to review.

This is all FAA approved data, you are not doing
something new. Should FAA know this stuff? No. Why?
It is up to you, the owner and your IA to put
together this package for FAA review. If you talk to
one of the Airworthiness ASI's in your office, you
will find that they don't have the time to sit down
and start from scratch to research this information.
But!!! They will work with you and help you get what
you need. If you are not willing or do not feel
qualified to do this, they have a list of Designated
Airworthiness Representatives who can put this package
together for you for a negotiated fee. These guys are
retired FAA inspectors and know the ropes.

Don, I'm not lambasting you but I hope that I have
explained the process and helped you to understand
what is required to keep your aircraft legal and
airworthy. If you have any more questions, email me
off the list. I'll be happy to help you.

Mike

FMI
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet



--- plsurflyin@aol.com wrote:
> Mike,
>
> The FAA should know this stuff, that is their job.
>
> To be difficult on something like this is purely
> assinine and they should be
> told so, to their faces.
>
> don

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Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:33 am
by plsurflyin@aol.com
'Mike,

I'm not taking it as lambasting. I agree that an owner should have his ducks
in a row.

However, I disagree that the FAA should not know how to do their job.
Especially in this case, where it is as easy as looking at A-706. To say that you
have to have engineering data just says 'I don't want to mess with it." That is
typical, lazy FAA "work".

We have a hard enough time keeping these vintage planes in the air without
some government official saying "no" just out of laziness. The FAA's job is to
promote Aviation, it's in their charter.

Just how are they promoting it? They see promoting as regulating.

off my soapbox....

don


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:34 am
by Chief Russell
'FROM one of my bureaucrats in FAA-OKC


Subject: Re: FW: [Fairchild club] Ranger 200hp approval



Dick I will forward the request for information to Wally Black on the 200HP
conversion he has some knowledge about that I will be gone until 4-25 will
be checking e mail on the road I know Wally had the same issue I think


(Embedded image moved to file: pic18300.gif)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:43 am
by plsurflyin@aol.com
'Dick,

Great! Wally is a good guy. He's a friend of my friend Glenn Peck, who has
restored the only Zenith and soon to fly, a Dh-4.

don


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:05 am
by Michael Denest
'Don,
It's becoming a little clearer now. From what you are
saying, the inspector in question is denying you a
process because he dosen't want to do his job? If
that is the case, you have a recourse to persue it at
the regional level. BTW, any FAA employee will tell
you that their charter is to promote safety.
Promoting aviation was taken out of that charter some
time ago.

Mike

--- plsurflyin@aol.com wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I'm not taking it as lambasting. I agree that an
> owner should have his ducks
> in a row.
>
> However, I disagree that the FAA should not know how
> to do their job.
> Especially in this case, where it is as easy as
> looking at A-706. To say that you
> have to have engineering data just says 'I don't
> want to mess with it." That is
> typical, lazy FAA "work".
>
> We have a hard enough time keeping these vintage
> planes in the air without
> some government official saying "no" just out of
> laziness. The FAA's job is to
> promote Aviation, it's in their charter.
>
> Just how are they promoting it? They see promoting
> as regulating.
>
> off my soapbox....
>
> don
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com'

Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:15 am
by plsurflyin@aol.com
'I'm not the one having the problem. My aircraft was already approved when I
bought it. You're dad helped me with a prop a couple years ago.

My problem is with the FAA guy.

If we're just going to have someone approve it, then hire someone for 1/2 the
price and tell them not to think, just check off all the boxes and approve it
when they're done. That's what this guy is doing.

don


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:20 am
by John Berendt
'Jamie,

Send the club a copy of the 337 we have another member who has the same
problem.

John Berendt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie S. Treat"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 200hp approval


> Jay,
>
> See attached FAA 337 form for the Ranger 200 conversion on a F-24.
>
> The one I attached is good for approved engineering due to the moratorium
> per FAA.
>
> This should be the only one you need, just attach to your FAA 337 as
> approved data.
>
> Jamie
>
> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
> Aircraft Restoration & Repair
> 24201 David C. Johnson Loop
> Kelly Airpark (CO15)
> http://www.kellyairpark.com
> Elbert, CO 80106
> HM/Shop 303-648-0130
> JamieTreat@direcway.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fairchild24pilot"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:26 PM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 200hp approval
>
>
> >I desperatly need help. We have just finished a complete restoration
> > an a F24 and had the 175 Ranger upgraded to a 200hp. The faa will not
> > approve it since we can not show them that the military version is the
> > same as the civilian version, which is impossible. If I could come up
> > with just one copy of a 337 (more would be even better) for the engine
> > upgrade, I would deeply appreciate it. Hoping for some help. Thank
> > you! Jay Thomson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
'

Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:55 pm
by Jamie S. Treat
'John,

See attached.

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Berendt"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Ranger 200hp approval


> Jamie,
>
> Send the club a copy of the 337 we have another member who has the same
> problem.
>
> John Berendt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamie S. Treat"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:36 PM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 200hp approval
>
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> See attached FAA 337 form for the Ranger 200 conversion on a F-24.
>>
>> The one I attached is good for approved engineering due to the moratorium
>> per FAA.
>>
>> This should be the only one you need, just attach to your FAA 337 as
>> approved data.
>>
>> Jamie
>>
>> Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
>> Aircraft Restoration & Repair
>> 24201 David C. Johnson Loop
>> Kelly Airpark (CO15)
>> http://www.kellyairpark.com
>> Elbert, CO 80106
>> HM/Shop 303-648-0130
>> JamieTreat@direcway.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "fairchild24pilot"
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:26 PM
>> Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 200hp approval
>>
>>
>> >I desperatly need help. We have just finished a complete restoration
>> > an a F24 and had the 175 Ranger upgraded to a 200hp. The faa will not
>> > approve it since we can not show them that the military version is the
>> > same as the civilian version, which is impossible. If I could come up
>> > with just one copy of a 337 (more would be even better) for the engine
>> > upgrade, I would deeply appreciate it. Hoping for some help. Thank
>> > you! Jay Thomson
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'

Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:40 pm
by Jamie S. Treat
'Jay,

The reference you need for the usage of the FAA 337 I provided you
is:

FAA AC 43-210 Parg 2.1.a.8

You can download from the FAA site.

If you can not get, send an email to my home account I can email to
you.

Jamie

>
>
> > Jay,
> >
> > See attached FAA 337 form for the Ranger 200 conversion on a F-
24.
> >
> > The one I attached is good for approved engineering due to the
moratorium
> > per FAA.
> >
> > This should be the only one you need, just attach to your FAA
337 as
> > approved data.
> >
> > Jamie
> >
> > Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
> > Aircraft Restoration & Repair
> > 24201 David C. Johnson Loop
> > Kelly Airpark (CO15)
> > http://www.kellyairpark.com
> > Elbert, CO 80106
> > HM/Shop 303-648-0130
> > JamieTreat@...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "fairchild24pilot"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:26 PM
> > Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger 200hp approval
> >
> >
> > >I desperatly need help. We have just finished a complete
restoration
> > > an a F24 and had the 175 Ranger upgraded to a 200hp. The faa
will not
> > > approve it since we can not show them that the military
version is the
> > > same as the civilian version, which is impossible. If I could
come up
> > > with just one copy of a 337 (more would be even better) for
the engine
> > > upgrade, I would deeply appreciate it. Hoping for some help.
Thank
> > > you! Jay Thomson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
'

Re: Ranger 200hp approval

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:24 pm
by fairchild24pilot
'Thank you very much Jamie! Jay'