Fairchild Club Forum

'hello everybody, I've been reading with interest about who has Dick Bach's old Fairchild. I know . Bill wheeler of Livonia, mi, had N244db for a lot of years . and she was no hangar queen. Bill flew that Fairchild a lot and enjoyed it a great deal. I meet Bill several years ago and we became good friends, he was a great help to me with my Fairchild. anyway Bill sold N224db last fall to some fellows down in North Carolina. they were going to restore the aircraft and fly tourist up and down the coast. Bill also had a parts plane N81258 which was a f24w46 minus the engine. it was sold along with N224DB. and that's about it.. ----- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Treat
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:37 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: Fairchild CD Rom and History

Is it possible to get a copy of the Flying mag article for scanning.

Jamie S. Treat

----- Original Message -----
From: "pittss1_s"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:50 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Fairchild CD Rom and History


> I've finally found the Flying magazine article that I was looking
> for. Dick wrote about rebuilding his Fairchild 24 in the February
> 1963 issue. The plane was originally registered as N81364 but while
> he had it he re-registered it as N224DB. The plane is still in the
> registry on the "landings.com" search page, but it doesn't give a
> name, just "registration pending" and an address in Ocala, Florida.
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "windshieldguy2000"
> wrote:
> > Wallace:
> >
> > If you end up finding the N-number for Dick Bach's F-24, please
> share
> > it. It would be interesting to find out what happened to the
> > airplane after he sold it.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Brad Donner
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

'Good clean repro copies would be fine.


N224DB is now owned by:

JOSEPH T BONGIOVANNI
6880 NW 21ST ST
OCALA, FLORIDA 34482-4406


Here is my contact info.


Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Kelly Airpark
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, Colorado
303-648-0103

----- Original Message -----
From: "pittss1_s"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:37 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Fairchild CD Rom and History


> Sure, I can either send you copies or I can send you the original
> for scanning.
>
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Treat
> wrote:
> > Is it possible to get a copy of the Flying mag article for scanning.
> >
> > Jamie S. Treat
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "pittss1_s"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:50 PM
> > Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Fairchild CD Rom and History
> >
> >
> > > I've finally found the Flying magazine article that I was looking
> > > for. Dick wrote about rebuilding his Fairchild 24 in the
> February
> > > 1963 issue. The plane was originally registered as N81364 but
> while
> > > he had it he re-registered it as N224DB. The plane is still in
> the
> > > registry on the "landings.com" search page, but it doesn't give a
> > > name, just "registration pending" and an address in Ocala,
> Florida.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "windshieldguy2000"
> > > wrote:
> > > > Wallace:
> > > >
> > > > If you end up finding the N-number for Dick Bach's F-24, please
> > > share
> > > > it. It would be interesting to find out what happened to the
> > > > airplane after he sold it.
> > > >
> > > > Best Wishes,
> > > > Brad Donner
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

'

'Wallace and Jamie:

Thanks for the information about Dick Bach's old airplane. Hope it
has a good home. I've noticed the registration information on
Landings.com can be a little stale at times. My airplane still shows
registered to it's previous owner even though we closed our deal and
did paperwork shortly after Christmas and I've run across similar
situations with other airplanes. I am doing two or three more days
at hard labor in Oklahoma on N77605 later this month and look forward
to posting some better pics of the rebuild SOON. Any advice on what
make and model of oil filter and air-oil separator work best on a
Ranger? I've been told the Airwolf stuff is best, but I'm always
open to other suggestions. I'd like to get the oil consumption down
low enough where my endurance is limited by fuel capacity rather than
oil burn rate.

Best Wishes,
Brad Donner'

'Brad,

We have two oil filter versions approved via FAA 337 for the Ranger install.
Airwolf spin-on and ADC Disc type. Both are remote systems. Ed did the
Airwolf and is installed. I did the ADC Disc type and has not been
installed. FAA engineneered approved only. I use the ADC on the Stinsons. I
like the Disc type, avoids the cutting and purchase of the filters. Also
provides additional cooling since the filter housing is finned. Both systems
offer Oil by-pass mode and Metal detection sensors.

As for the Piston mod. You can get with Ed W. or Tom Goodlett. Brad, Tom is
in Texas, tool is in the Auto restoration shop, right side walking in. He
developed the tooling for Ed years ago. There are only two sets of tooling
that we know of. Very simple, but has to be accurate. This mod is a knock
off of the Warner piston setup.

As for Air-Oil separators. I have not found any large enough units state
side to apply. There are some nice pint size ones, to small for Ranger
operation. Bob Haas in Fla just purchased one from Germany. About a 1qt
size. Wes Allen (Tom Goodletts 24R46A) has a nice unit installed, works
well. I have no drawings as of yet for a Air-Oil Sep. Go take a look at that
one. Simple design.

Standard Ranger Oil consumption is between 1 to 1 1/2 qt per hour at 2150
RPM. If you choose to run it at 2250 or higher, you will double oil
consumption. Normal fuel per hour is 10gal per hour. I have seen 8.9 gph at
13,000msl and leaned. I always plan for 10gph per hour. This past summer I
ran the Ranger at 2350 with the Aeromatic for 1 hour. Used 21gph and three
qts. I was bored on a commerical flight a few months ago, had the UC61A flt
manual and did some fuel burn calculations. A Ranger full military power
(2450 - 2500) will burn 33.5 gallons per hour. Suck those tanks dry in under
two hours. Nice to know if you have to push it someday. You will be out of
gas before oil. I had to run the Ranger hard last summer coming back from
the Rocky Mountain Fly-in to beat bopping thunderheads. Ran it for 45 min
full throttle, 2350 rpm at this alt with Aeromatic. It does suck the fuel
and blows out the oil.

Best plan for engine life. Remote oil Filter install, Remote oil heater
behind Oil tank for cold weather, and a light weight Pre-oiler. Also
provides a eng oil pump backup for remote operatings at night and mountain
flying. I will be installing all of these in three aircraft, 1934 Waco Cabin
YKC, 24W40 and my 24R46 when restored. There is only one pre-oiler that I
found that is FAA/PMA approved, very expensive($1,600), heavy and space
taking. I found another one in Calif, made by an aerospace company, lighter,
and fraction the cost. I will be using this one for all the aircraft above
useing a FAA 337. Here is the company info below. Also attached the info.
Slick little unit. All engines should have, even my autos.

Infinity Aerospace
JD@InfinityAerospace.com;
(619) 448-5176
http://www.infinityaerospace.com

Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Kelly Airpark
Elbert, Colorado
303-648-0103

----- Original Message -----
From: "windshieldguy2000"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:59 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Fairchild CD Rom and History


> Wallace and Jamie:
>
> Thanks for the information about Dick Bach's old airplane. Hope it
> has a good home. I've noticed the registration information on
> Landings.com can be a little stale at times. My airplane still shows
> registered to it's previous owner even though we closed our deal and
> did paperwork shortly after Christmas and I've run across similar
> situations with other airplanes. I am doing two or three more days
> at hard labor in Oklahoma on N77605 later this month and look forward
> to posting some better pics of the rebuild SOON. Any advice on what
> make and model of oil filter and air-oil separator work best on a
> Ranger? I've been told the Airwolf stuff is best, but I'm always
> open to other suggestions. I'd like to get the oil consumption down
> low enough where my endurance is limited by fuel capacity rather than
> oil burn rate.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Brad Donner
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

'

'Hi Guys,

Just for your info...and bear in mind this is what I'm getting whether it's
right or wrong...but my 200hp ranger burns 13gph at 1,800 msl at full-throttle
without leaning doing about 107 mph with an aeromatic. I'll do another test
after we get it annualed, but I know it'll do 120 mph at 2350 but I don't know
the fuel burn. Oil consumption is a little over 1 quart per hour (thanks so
Much Ed Wegner!!!)

don


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

'Jamie, all:

On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 01:46 PM, Jamie Treat wrote:

> I was bored on a commerical flight a few months ago, had the UC61A flt
> manual and did some fuel burn calculations. A Ranger full military
> power
> (2450 - 2500) will burn 33.5 gallons per hour. Suck those tanks dry in
> under
> two hours. Nice to know if you have to push it someday.

I dont doubt your experience of high fuel consumption at high power
settings, but I am surprised. The Ranger 6-440C Instruction Book lists
the fuel consumption at Take-off or High Speed condition (full throttle
/ 2450 rpm / full rich) at 19 gallons per hour. The performance curves
indicate specific fuel consumption at full throttle to be .53
lbs/hour/hp for the C-5 at 200 hp (around 18 gph). The lower
compression engines do a bit worse, but even the C-2 is .64 lbs/hour/hp
at 175 hp.

I looked back at my consumption statistics from about 60 hours of
flying during the fall of 2002. I have a stock C-5 engine (no piston
mod) driving a Hartzell controllable pitch prop and use Phillips 25W-60
oil. I cruise at 21"/2100 rpm, usually 4500 - 7500 on longer flights,
when feasible, here in the flatlands. I lean conservatively over 5000
feet. Over these flights, I averaged 10.2 gph and 1.1 quart/hour based
on block time (11.4 / 1.3 tach time). Worst fuel consumption during
the period was 11.7 gph, which yields a theoretical endurance of 5.1
hours.

Cheers,

:Dan
:1946 F24R NC81323

'

'Dan,

The most I have seen is 21 gph. I used the military manual for the
computations on the last email.
There is a note at the bottom, "not Flt tested" So this may be incorrect
data. I was
surprised myself, I must have done the computation 20 times, just could not
believe. I use to
write and manage the F-15 and F-16 flt manuals so they may have been heavy
on the conservative side. Would not be the first time the Military was very
conservative. I normally get 10 gph myself.

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "danMichael"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 3:21 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Ranger fuel and oil consumption


> Jamie, all:
>
> On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 01:46 PM, Jamie Treat wrote:
>
> > I was bored on a commerical flight a few months ago, had the UC61A flt
> > manual and did some fuel burn calculations. A Ranger full military
> > power
> > (2450 - 2500) will burn 33.5 gallons per hour. Suck those tanks dry in
> > under
> > two hours. Nice to know if you have to push it someday.
>
> I dont doubt your experience of high fuel consumption at high power
> settings, but I am surprised. The Ranger 6-440C Instruction Book lists
> the fuel consumption at Take-off or High Speed condition (full throttle
> / 2450 rpm / full rich) at 19 gallons per hour. The performance curves
> indicate specific fuel consumption at full throttle to be .53
> lbs/hour/hp for the C-5 at 200 hp (around 18 gph). The lower
> compression engines do a bit worse, but even the C-2 is .64 lbs/hour/hp
> at 175 hp.
>
> I looked back at my consumption statistics from about 60 hours of
> flying during the fall of 2002. I have a stock C-5 engine (no piston
> mod) driving a Hartzell controllable pitch prop and use Phillips 25W-60
> oil. I cruise at 21"/2100 rpm, usually 4500 - 7500 on longer flights,
> when feasible, here in the flatlands. I lean conservatively over 5000
> feet. Over these flights, I averaged 10.2 gph and 1.1 quart/hour based
> on block time (11.4 / 1.3 tach time). Worst fuel consumption during
> the period was 11.7 gph, which yields a theoretical endurance of 5.1
> hours.
>
> Cheers,
>
> :Dan
> :1946 F24R NC81323
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

'

'Hey Jamie, I concur, both 200 hp F24's and both PT 19's
burned 10 gallons an hour in cruise, but when doing air shows, or rides
it goes up considerably,
Oil as will as fuel. We are going to Tico next week end,
see you for SUN & Fun Bob.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jamie Treat [mailto:jamietreat@direcway.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:15 PM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: Ranger fuel and oil consumption

Dan,

The most I have seen is 21 gph. I used the military manual for the
computations on the last email.
There is a note at the bottom, "not Flt tested" So this may be incorrect
data. I was
surprised myself, I must have done the computation 20 times, just could
not
believe. I use to
write and manage the F-15 and F-16 flt manuals so they may have been
heavy
on the conservative side. Would not be the first time the Military was
very
conservative. I normally get 10 gph myself.

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "danMichael"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 3:21 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Ranger fuel and oil consumption


> Jamie, all:
>
> On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 01:46 PM, Jamie Treat wrote:
>
> > I was bored on a commerical flight a few months ago, had the UC61A
flt
> > manual and did some fuel burn calculations. A Ranger full military
> > power
> > (2450 - 2500) will burn 33.5 gallons per hour. Suck those tanks dry
in
> > under
> > two hours. Nice to know if you have to push it someday.
>
> I dont doubt your experience of high fuel consumption at high power
> settings, but I am surprised. The Ranger 6-440C Instruction Book
lists
> the fuel consumption at Take-off or High Speed condition (full
throttle
> / 2450 rpm / full rich) at 19 gallons per hour. The performance
curves
> indicate specific fuel consumption at full throttle to be .53
> lbs/hour/hp for the C-5 at 200 hp (around 18 gph). The lower
> compression engines do a bit worse, but even the C-2 is .64
lbs/hour/hp
> at 175 hp.
>
> I looked back at my consumption statistics from about 60 hours of
> flying during the fall of 2002. I have a stock C-5 engine (no piston
> mod) driving a Hartzell controllable pitch prop and use Phillips
25W-60
> oil. I cruise at 21"/2100 rpm, usually 4500 - 7500 on longer flights,
> when feasible, here in the flatlands. I lean conservatively over 5000
> feet. Over these flights, I averaged 10.2 gph and 1.1 quart/hour
based
> on block time (11.4 / 1.3 tach time). Worst fuel consumption during
> the period was 11.7 gph, which yields a theoretical endurance of 5.1
> hours.
>
> Cheers,
>
> :Dan
> :1946 F24R NC81323
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>






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Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

'I fly a PT-26 with a 6-440-C5, 200hp. No fancy mods,
just good ring fit in the cylinders. Flying the
recommended 2050 rpm, I'm getting about 10gph and 1
qt/hr. I don't mess with success ;o)
Mike


--- Jamie Treat wrote:

> Dan,
>
> The most I have seen is 21 gph. I used the military
> manual for the
> computations on the last email.
> There is a note at the bottom, "not Flt tested" So
> this may be incorrect
> data. I was
> surprised myself, I must have done the computation
> 20 times, just could not
> believe. I use to
> write and manage the F-15 and F-16 flt manuals so
> they may have been heavy
> on the conservative side. Would not be the first
> time the Military was very
> conservative. I normally get 10 gph myself.
>
> Jamie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "danMichael"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 3:21 PM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Ranger fuel and oil
> consumption
>
>
> > Jamie, all:
> >
> > On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 01:46 PM, Jamie
> Treat wrote:
> >
> > > I was bored on a commerical flight a few months
> ago, had the UC61A flt
> > > manual and did some fuel burn calculations. A
> Ranger full military
> > > power
> > > (2450 - 2500) will burn 33.5 gallons per hour.
> Suck those tanks dry in
> > > under
> > > two hours. Nice to know if you have to push it
> someday.
> >
> > I dont doubt your experience of high fuel
> consumption at high power
> > settings, but I am surprised. The Ranger 6-440C
> Instruction Book lists
> > the fuel consumption at Take-off or High Speed
> condition (full throttle
> > / 2450 rpm / full rich) at 19 gallons per hour.
> The performance curves
> > indicate specific fuel consumption at full
> throttle to be .53
> > lbs/hour/hp for the C-5 at 200 hp (around 18 gph).
> The lower
> > compression engines do a bit worse, but even the
> C-2 is .64 lbs/hour/hp
> > at 175 hp.
> >
> > I looked back at my consumption statistics from
> about 60 hours of
> > flying during the fall of 2002. I have a stock
> C-5 engine (no piston
> > mod) driving a Hartzell controllable pitch prop
> and use Phillips 25W-60
> > oil. I cruise at 21"/2100 rpm, usually 4500 -
> 7500 on longer flights,
> > when feasible, here in the flatlands. I lean
> conservatively over 5000
> > feet. Over these flights, I averaged 10.2 gph and
> 1.1 quart/hour based
> > on block time (11.4 / 1.3 tach time). Worst fuel
> consumption during
> > the period was 11.7 gph, which yields a
> theoretical endurance of 5.1
> > hours.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > :Dan
> > :1946 F24R NC81323
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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