'From Nigel Hitchman....Thought I'd try embedding the pix in the w-mail to see if they show up.
"NC16878 Fairchild 45 at Hollister, CA 30 Aug 2016 being worked on, but not a full restoration. Told they are hoping to take it to Oshkosh 2017. Will be great to see this flying, saw it at Oshkosh in the 90s once, but never seen it fly. Based at Paso Robles."
[cid:image001.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[cid:image002.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[cid:image003.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'
Re: Glues
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: Fairchild 45
'
Nope, didn't make it....will post in a folder. Can't the moderators change the settings so pix show up? They do it on other Yahoo sites....
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 7:34 AM
To: fairchildclub
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fairchild 45
From Nigel Hitchman....Thought I'd try embedding the pix in the w-mail to see if they show up.
"NC16878 Fairchild 45 at Hollister, CA 30 Aug 2016 being worked on, but not a full restoration. Told they are hoping to take it to Oshkosh 2017. Will be great to see this flying, saw it at Oshkosh in the 90s once, but never seen it fly. Based at Paso Robles."
[cid:image001.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[cid:image002.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[cid:image003.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'
Nope, didn't make it....will post in a folder. Can't the moderators change the settings so pix show up? They do it on other Yahoo sites....
From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 7:34 AM
To: fairchildclub
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fairchild 45
From Nigel Hitchman....Thought I'd try embedding the pix in the w-mail to see if they show up.
"NC16878 Fairchild 45 at Hollister, CA 30 Aug 2016 being worked on, but not a full restoration. Told they are hoping to take it to Oshkosh 2017. Will be great to see this flying, saw it at Oshkosh in the 90s once, but never seen it fly. Based at Paso Robles."
[cid:image001.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[cid:image002.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[cid:image003.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'
-
Steve Link
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:37 pm
Re: Fairchild 45
' New pictures in Fairchild 45 folder or you should be able to click on the “New Pictures” tab at the bottom of this e-mail. From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 7:37 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Fairchild 45 Nope, didn't make it....will post in a folder. Can't the moderators change the settings so pix show up? They do it on other Yahoo sites.... From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 7:34 AM
To: fairchildclub
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fairchild 45 From Nigel Hitchman....Thought I'd try embedding the pix in the w-mail to see if they show up.
"NC16878 Fairchild 45 at Hollister, CA 30 Aug 2016 being worked on, but not a full restoration. Told they are hoping to take it to Oshkosh 2017. Will be great to see this flying, saw it at Oshkosh in the 90s once, but never seen it fly. Based at Paso Robles."
[[url=cid:image001.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]cid:image001.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780[/url]]
[[url=cid:image002.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]cid:image002.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780[/url]]
[[url=cid:image003.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]cid:image003.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780[/url]]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] '
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 7:37 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Fairchild 45 Nope, didn't make it....will post in a folder. Can't the moderators change the settings so pix show up? They do it on other Yahoo sites.... From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Link steven_link@msn.com [fairchildclub]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 7:34 AM
To: fairchildclub
Subject: [fairchildclub] Fairchild 45 From Nigel Hitchman....Thought I'd try embedding the pix in the w-mail to see if they show up.
"NC16878 Fairchild 45 at Hollister, CA 30 Aug 2016 being worked on, but not a full restoration. Told they are hoping to take it to Oshkosh 2017. Will be great to see this flying, saw it at Oshkosh in the 90s once, but never seen it fly. Based at Paso Robles."
[[url=cid:image001.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]cid:image001.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780[/url]]
[[url=cid:image002.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]cid:image002.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780[/url]]
[[url=cid:image003.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780]cid:image003.jpg@01D204EC.5FE28780[/url]]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] '
Re: Glues
'Two questions for the collective... What glue(s) are the current
replacement for casein and UF glues used during WW2? Use will be in
fabrication of new wings for a airplane with a TC.
Secondly, are there any good structural adhesives for aircraft wood use
that have a very long work life? I'm talking hours, not minutes. The
structure on my AT-21 was all done with radio cured adhesives. I'm not
investing hundreds of thousands of dollars to build an rf curing system
for this project.
Craig'
replacement for casein and UF glues used during WW2? Use will be in
fabrication of new wings for a airplane with a TC.
Secondly, are there any good structural adhesives for aircraft wood use
that have a very long work life? I'm talking hours, not minutes. The
structure on my AT-21 was all done with radio cured adhesives. I'm not
investing hundreds of thousands of dollars to build an rf curing system
for this project.
Craig'
-
Jamie Treat
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 7:14 pm
Re: Glues
'Craig,
The two most common Epoxy resin glues currently used by most wood builders
are System 3 T-88 and West Systems 105. Both are excellent glues.
The Classic Waco factory uses West System 105 under Engineering Approval.
Neither products have PMA approval by the FAA. I have spoke with both
companies and they see no need to obtain FAA approval.
With that said, the FAA did a complete rewrite of the following section of
AC 43.13-1B Chapter 1 Parg 1-4. It pretty much explains the FAA position. My
FAA counterpart has no issues with either products. In fact he supports my
use these two over the old Casein and Resorcinol glues.
I have used T-88 for 30 years for spar splices and rib build up on aerobatic
and non-aerobatic aircraft with great success. I test them daily on Pitts
type aircraft. Lately I have used West Systems for plywood laminations.
Works great due to being thin. I coat the surfaces and then place in press.
During LE install, I pour and brush/feather out inside. Then I use the
thickener additive to dab on ribs and spar caps. The West Systems provides
protection like varnish. You also have a complete line of additives to
thicken for all operations. I also know that West Systems has better
penetration (based on testing) into the wood fibers.
As for long life, the T-88 has a longer pot life. You can slow it down by
placing in fridge. I only mix up what I need. Don't know why you would need
hours for working life. Mix, glue and go.
www.westsystem.com
www.systemthree.com
As an IA I sign my own FAA 337s for repair using the above glues. You do
need to check with your IA and make sure is on board with the usage.
Hope this helps. Feel free to contact me in person.
JST
Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Fairchild Club DVD Editor
IAC 5, Chapter President
http://iac5.org
Kelly Airpark (CO15) http://www.kellyairpark.org
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, CO 80106
Hm 303-648-0130
Cell 303-304-7937
Quote of the Month: The emergencies you train for almost never happen. It's
the one you can't train for that kills you. - Ernest K. Gann, advice from
the 'old pelican'
-----Original Message-----
From:] Re: Glues
Two questions for the collective... What glue(s) are the current replacement
for casein and UF glues used during WW2? Use will be in fabrication of new
wings for a airplane with a TC.
Secondly, are there any good structural adhesives for aircraft wood use that
have a very long work life? I'm talking hours, not minutes. The structure on
my AT-21 was all done with radio cured adhesives. I'm not investing hundreds
of thousands of dollars to build an rf curing system for this project.
Craig'
The two most common Epoxy resin glues currently used by most wood builders
are System 3 T-88 and West Systems 105. Both are excellent glues.
The Classic Waco factory uses West System 105 under Engineering Approval.
Neither products have PMA approval by the FAA. I have spoke with both
companies and they see no need to obtain FAA approval.
With that said, the FAA did a complete rewrite of the following section of
AC 43.13-1B Chapter 1 Parg 1-4. It pretty much explains the FAA position. My
FAA counterpart has no issues with either products. In fact he supports my
use these two over the old Casein and Resorcinol glues.
I have used T-88 for 30 years for spar splices and rib build up on aerobatic
and non-aerobatic aircraft with great success. I test them daily on Pitts
type aircraft. Lately I have used West Systems for plywood laminations.
Works great due to being thin. I coat the surfaces and then place in press.
During LE install, I pour and brush/feather out inside. Then I use the
thickener additive to dab on ribs and spar caps. The West Systems provides
protection like varnish. You also have a complete line of additives to
thicken for all operations. I also know that West Systems has better
penetration (based on testing) into the wood fibers.
As for long life, the T-88 has a longer pot life. You can slow it down by
placing in fridge. I only mix up what I need. Don't know why you would need
hours for working life. Mix, glue and go.
www.westsystem.com
www.systemthree.com
As an IA I sign my own FAA 337s for repair using the above glues. You do
need to check with your IA and make sure is on board with the usage.
Hope this helps. Feel free to contact me in person.
JST
Jamie S. Treat A&P/IA
Aircraft Restoration & Repair, LLC
Fairchild Club DVD Editor
IAC 5, Chapter President
http://iac5.org
Kelly Airpark (CO15) http://www.kellyairpark.org
24201 David C. Johnson Loop
Elbert, CO 80106
Hm 303-648-0130
Cell 303-304-7937
Quote of the Month: The emergencies you train for almost never happen. It's
the one you can't train for that kills you. - Ernest K. Gann, advice from
the 'old pelican'
-----Original Message-----
From:] Re: Glues
Two questions for the collective... What glue(s) are the current replacement
for casein and UF glues used during WW2? Use will be in fabrication of new
wings for a airplane with a TC.
Secondly, are there any good structural adhesives for aircraft wood use that
have a very long work life? I'm talking hours, not minutes. The structure on
my AT-21 was all done with radio cured adhesives. I'm not investing hundreds
of thousands of dollars to build an rf curing system for this project.
Craig'
Re: Glues
'
. Hi Jamie: Thanks for the response. I've known about T-88, but was not sure how the feds looked upon using it for certified aircraft. I need to scratch build some Stinson L-5 wings for one of my projects. I have a set of wings, but am very leery of their integrity due to how they were stored over the years, so I will build new ones instead.
As to needing very long pot times...The AT-21 fuselage is built like a large model airplane. There are a total of 8 skins that compromise the fuselage. They range in size from 2'x4' or so, all the way up to 10'x 19', with thickness varying from .070" to .220", laminated with as few as three and as many as 9 plies. The skins are built like a cold molded boat hull, with varying strip widths according to the layup schedule. The assembly was then wheeled into a large RF chamber and bombarded with high power rf to cure the glue in a matter of minutes. I'm going to have to modify the process and forgo using rf for the cure and use time cured glues. If they had used conventional wood construction, this wouldn't have been a problem, but since this a stressed skin, with few bulkheads, it will take some creativity to replicate.
I ran through the wood section of AC-43.13-1B Change 1, this morning and running down the MIL-A-22397 specification, there are a couple of glues that are available, that appear to have the necessary work life, based on working temps that I should be able to maintain in the shop. I'll probably order some small quantities and run some experiments this fall.
Craig
. Hi Jamie: Thanks for the response. I've known about T-88, but was not sure how the feds looked upon using it for certified aircraft. I need to scratch build some Stinson L-5 wings for one of my projects. I have a set of wings, but am very leery of their integrity due to how they were stored over the years, so I will build new ones instead.
As to needing very long pot times...The AT-21 fuselage is built like a large model airplane. There are a total of 8 skins that compromise the fuselage. They range in size from 2'x4' or so, all the way up to 10'x 19', with thickness varying from .070" to .220", laminated with as few as three and as many as 9 plies. The skins are built like a cold molded boat hull, with varying strip widths according to the layup schedule. The assembly was then wheeled into a large RF chamber and bombarded with high power rf to cure the glue in a matter of minutes. I'm going to have to modify the process and forgo using rf for the cure and use time cured glues. If they had used conventional wood construction, this wouldn't have been a problem, but since this a stressed skin, with few bulkheads, it will take some creativity to replicate.
I ran through the wood section of AC-43.13-1B Change 1, this morning and running down the MIL-A-22397 specification, there are a couple of glues that are available, that appear to have the necessary work life, based on working temps that I should be able to maintain in the shop. I'll probably order some small quantities and run some experiments this fall.
Craig
'