Re: F-24 Master Brake Info

[higham_jim]

'Hi Roger
I know your not inquiring about changing your brakes, but I installed Cleveland wheel and brakes last year on my F24R46. Then I replaced my master cylinders with Gar-Kenyon 17000 with a remote mounted reservoir, making servicing with 5606 a breeze. The small displacement master cylinders give great control and pedal feel. Then this past winter the owner of F24R46 N81363 Leon Whelchel installed the same setup and so far likes it. I installed both with field approvals. Now if you are not interested in changing your brakes, Leon might have his original master cylinders for sale.
Jim Higham
F24R46A
N81207

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
>
> Hi Roger
> I did have Sierra Specialty Automotive (530-283-1886) sleeve my master cylinders. Mine are for a 1946 F-24W, which is still a long way from flying but I have no doubt they will work just fine. My cylinders are not castings. They were called tin can master cylinders and were an assembly of machined steel cylinder, sheet metal can type reservoir, and sheet metal attach fittings all brazed together. The original ID plate attached to the cylinders identified them as Wagner Electric Corporation # FE2014. Sierra Specialty Automotive machined out the old cylinders and installed the brass sleeves and I installed the brake kits. I think Joe at Sierra Specialty Automotive said the cylinders are 1937 - 41 Chrysler master brake cylinders. I am happy with their work but I did have to heat and streach out the snap ring to securily retain all the innerds. You do have to pick and choose between the original brake parts and the replacement parts. I used a NAPA #1 brake kit for the rubber parts but retained the original brass pistons, and thin brass washers which act as check valves. The remainder of the kit was discarded. The machining cost was $110.00 each. I thought I took pictures of the cylinders before installing the brake kits but have been unable to find them so far. I will be happy help If you have any other questions.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ellengstarr
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:10 PM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
>
>
>
> Rich,
> Wondering what you were able to come up with regarding sleeving your cylinders? I have a 24W with 1 1/4" bore. Believe they are original type.
> One place looked at them and said the casting would be too thin after machining for the sleeve. So I am back to square one!
> Thanks.
> Roger Starr
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Bob, Tom, and Jamie for the brake info.
> > Since my cylinders are corroded and will need to be corrected inorder to be rebuilt; I will let you all know what I wind up doing to fix the problem. I've been studying the way the Fairchild master brake cylinders were built and have decided that fabricating new stainless steel cylinders for the master brake would not be impossible, if I can't find someone that can sleeve them with stainless sleeves.
> > Thanks again.
> > Rich Seifert
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

'

[Ellen Starr]

'Thanks Rich for your prompt reply.  Good info.
Roger Starr

--- On Sat, 5/8/10, Richard Seifert wrote:


From: Richard Seifert
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 9:23 PM


 



Hi Roger
I did have Sierra Specialty Automotive (530-283-1886) sleeve my master cylinders. Mine are for a 1946 F-24W, which is still a long way from flying but I have no doubt they will work just fine. My cylinders are not castings. They were called tin can master cylinders and were an assembly of machined steel cylinder, sheet metal can type reservoir, and sheet metal attach fittings all brazed together. The original ID plate attached to the cylinders identified them as Wagner Electric Corporation # FE2014. Sierra Specialty Automotive machined out the old cylinders and installed the brass sleeves and I installed the brake kits. I think Joe at Sierra Specialty Automotive said the cylinders are 1937 - 41 Chrysler master brake cylinders. I am happy with their work but I did have to heat and streach out the snap ring to securily retain all the innerds. You do have to pick and choose between the original brake parts and the replacement parts. I used a NAPA #1 brake
kit for the rubber parts but retained the original brass pistons, and thin brass washers which act as check valves. The remainder of the kit was discarded. The machining cost was $110.00 each. I thought I took pictures of the cylinders before installing the brake kits but have been unable to find them so far. I will be happy help If you have any other questions.

----- Original Message -----
From: ellengstarr
To: fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:10 PM
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info

Rich,
Wondering what you were able to come up with regarding sleeving your cylinders? I have a 24W with 1 1/4" bore. Believe they are original type.
One place looked at them and said the casting would be too thin after machining for the sleeve. So I am back to square one!
Thanks.
Roger Starr

--- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob, Tom, and Jamie for the brake info.
> Since my cylinders are corroded and will need to be corrected inorder to be rebuilt; I will let you all know what I wind up doing to fix the problem. I've been studying the way the Fairchild master brake cylinders were built and have decided that fabricating new stainless steel cylinders for the master brake would not be impossible, if I can't find someone that can sleeve them with stainless sleeves.
> Thanks again.
> Rich Seifert
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

[Ellen Starr]

'Jim,
Thanks for your prompt reply.
Wondering if the cylinders you used could be used in place of the old ones with the Hayes brakes?

--- On Sat, 5/8/10, higham_jim wrote:


From: higham_jim
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 10:02 PM


 



Hi Roger
I know your not inquiring about changing your brakes, but I installed Cleveland wheel and brakes last year on my F24R46. Then I replaced my master cylinders with Gar-Kenyon 17000 with a remote mounted reservoir, making servicing with 5606 a breeze. The small displacement master cylinders give great control and pedal feel. Then this past winter the owner of F24R46 N81363 Leon Whelchel installed the same setup and so far likes it. I installed both with field approvals. Now if you are not interested in changing your brakes, Leon might have his original master cylinders for sale.
Jim Higham
F24R46A
N81207

--- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
>
> Hi Roger
> I did have Sierra Specialty Automotive (530-283-1886) sleeve my master cylinders. Mine are for a 1946 F-24W, which is still a long way from flying but I have no doubt they will work just fine. My cylinders are not castings. They were called tin can master cylinders and were an assembly of machined steel cylinder, sheet metal can type reservoir, and sheet metal attach fittings all brazed together. The original ID plate attached to the cylinders identified them as Wagner Electric Corporation # FE2014. Sierra Specialty Automotive machined out the old cylinders and installed the brass sleeves and I installed the brake kits. I think Joe at Sierra Specialty Automotive said the cylinders are 1937 - 41 Chrysler master brake cylinders. I am happy with their work but I did have to heat and streach out the snap ring to securily retain all the innerds. You do have to pick and choose between the original brake parts and the replacement parts. I used a NAPA #1 brake
kit for the rubber parts but retained the original brass pistons, and thin brass washers which act as check valves. The remainder of the kit was discarded. The machining cost was $110.00 each. I thought I took pictures of the cylinders before installing the brake kits but have been unable to find them so far. I will be happy help If you have any other questions.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ellengstarr
> To: fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:10 PM
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
>
>
>
> Rich,
> Wondering what you were able to come up with regarding sleeving your cylinders? I have a 24W with 1 1/4" bore. Believe they are original type.
> One place looked at them and said the casting would be too thin after machining for the sleeve. So I am back to square one!
> Thanks.
> Roger Starr
>
> --- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Bob, Tom, and Jamie for the brake info.
> > Since my cylinders are corroded and will need to be corrected inorder to be rebuilt; I will let you all know what I wind up doing to fix the problem. I've been studying the way the Fairchild master brake cylinders were built and have decided that fabricating new stainless steel cylinders for the master brake would not be impossible, if I can't find someone that can sleeve them with stainless sleeves.
> > Thanks again.
> > Rich Seifert
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

[higham_jim]

'Sorry but the master cylinders I used are a 0.625 diameter bore, only half the fluid displacement of the Hayes requirement. Cleveland makes the 10-95 master cylinder with a 1.00 diameter bore with a stroke of 1.35 giving a displacement of 1.015 cubic inches. Ill have to see what the original displacement is but I think the originals stroke is shorter, this master cylinder could work, you might have to change the length of the bellcrank arm controled by the brake pedal in order to get you the additonal stroke. But it should be do-able. Where do you live, what FSDO do you use?
Jim Higham
F24R46A

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, Ellen Starr wrote:
>
> Jim,
> Thanks for your prompt reply.
> Wondering if the cylinders you used could be used in place of the old ones with the Hayes brakes?
>
> --- On Sat, 5/8/10, higham_jim wrote:
>
>
> From: higham_jim
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
> To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 10:02 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi Roger
> I know your not inquiring about changing your brakes, but I installed Cleveland wheel and brakes last year on my F24R46. Then I replaced my master cylinders with Gar-Kenyon 17000 with a remote mounted reservoir, making servicing with 5606 a breeze. The small displacement master cylinders give great control and pedal feel. Then this past winter the owner of F24R46 N81363 Leon Whelchel installed the same setup and so far likes it. I installed both with field approvals. Now if you are not interested in changing your brakes, Leon might have his original master cylinders for sale.
> Jim Higham
> F24R46A
> N81207
>
> --- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Roger
> > I did have Sierra Specialty Automotive (530-283-1886) sleeve my master cylinders. Mine are for a 1946 F-24W, which is still a long way from flying but I have no doubt they will work just fine. My cylinders are not castings. They were called tin can master cylinders and were an assembly of machined steel cylinder, sheet metal can type reservoir, and sheet metal attach fittings all brazed together. The original ID plate attached to the cylinders identified them as Wagner Electric Corporation # FE2014. Sierra Specialty Automotive machined out the old cylinders and installed the brass sleeves and I installed the brake kits. I think Joe at Sierra Specialty Automotive said the cylinders are 1937 - 41 Chrysler master brake cylinders. I am happy with their work but I did have to heat and streach out the snap ring to securily retain all the innerds. You do have to pick and choose between the original brake parts and the replacement parts. I used a NAPA #1 brake
> kit for the rubber parts but retained the original brass pistons, and thin brass washers which act as check valves. The remainder of the kit was discarded. The machining cost was $110.00 each. I thought I took pictures of the cylinders before installing the brake kits but have been unable to find them so far. I will be happy help If you have any other questions.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ellengstarr
> > To: fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:10 PM
> > Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
> >
> >
> >
> > Rich,
> > Wondering what you were able to come up with regarding sleeving your cylinders? I have a 24W with 1 1/4" bore. Believe they are original type.
> > One place looked at them and said the casting would be too thin after machining for the sleeve. So I am back to square one!
> > Thanks.
> > Roger Starr
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Bob, Tom, and Jamie for the brake info.
> > > Since my cylinders are corroded and will need to be corrected inorder to be rebuilt; I will let you all know what I wind up doing to fix the problem. I've been studying the way the Fairchild master brake cylinders were built and have decided that fabricating new stainless steel cylinders for the master brake would not be impossible, if I can't find someone that can sleeve them with stainless sleeves.
> > > Thanks again.
> > > Rich Seifert
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

'

[Ellen Starr]

'Suspected it may be too small a bore from the pictures.
FSDO is Hillsboro, Oregon.

im wrote:


From: higham_jim
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 2:44 PM


 



Sorry but the master cylinders I used are a 0.625 diameter bore, only half the fluid displacement of the Hayes requirement. Cleveland makes the 10-95 master cylinder with a 1.00 diameter bore with a stroke of 1.35 giving a displacement of 1.015 cubic inches. Ill have to see what the original displacement is but I think the originals stroke is shorter, this master cylinder could work, you might have to change the length of the bellcrank arm controled by the brake pedal in order to get you the additonal stroke. But it should be do-able. Where do you live, what FSDO do you use?
Jim Higham
F24R46A

--- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, Ellen Starr wrote:
>
> Jim,
> Thanks for your prompt reply.
> Wondering if the cylinders you used could be used in place of the old ones with the Hayes brakes?
>
> --- On Sat, 5/8/10, higham_jim wrote:
>
>
> From: higham_jim
> Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
> To: fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 10:02 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi Roger
> I know your not inquiring about changing your brakes, but I installed Cleveland wheel and brakes last year on my F24R46. Then I replaced my master cylinders with Gar-Kenyon 17000 with a remote mounted reservoir, making servicing with 5606 a breeze. The small displacement master cylinders give great control and pedal feel. Then this past winter the owner of F24R46 N81363 Leon Whelchel installed the same setup and so far likes it. I installed both with field approvals. Now if you are not interested in changing your brakes, Leon might have his original master cylinders for sale.
> Jim Higham
> F24R46A
> N81207
>
> --- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Roger
> > I did have Sierra Specialty Automotive (530-283-1886) sleeve my master cylinders. Mine are for a 1946 F-24W, which is still a long way from flying but I have no doubt they will work just fine. My cylinders are not castings. They were called tin can master cylinders and were an assembly of machined steel cylinder, sheet metal can type reservoir, and sheet metal attach fittings all brazed together. The original ID plate attached to the cylinders identified them as Wagner Electric Corporation # FE2014. Sierra Specialty Automotive machined out the old cylinders and installed the brass sleeves and I installed the brake kits. I think Joe at Sierra Specialty Automotive said the cylinders are 1937 - 41 Chrysler master brake cylinders. I am happy with their work but I did have to heat and streach out the snap ring to securily retain all the innerds. You do have to pick and choose between the original brake parts and the replacement parts. I used a NAPA #1
brake
> kit for the rubber parts but retained the original brass pistons, and thin brass washers which act as check valves. The remainder of the kit was discarded. The machining cost was $110.00 each. I thought I took pictures of the cylinders before installing the brake kits but have been unable to find them so far. I will be happy help If you have any other questions.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ellengstarr
> > To: fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:10 PM
> > Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
> >
> >
> >
> > Rich,
> > Wondering what you were able to come up with regarding sleeving your cylinders? I have a 24W with 1 1/4" bore. Believe they are original type.
> > One place looked at them and said the casting would be too thin after machining for the sleeve. So I am back to square one!
> > Thanks.
> > Roger Starr
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Bob, Tom, and Jamie for the brake info.
> > > Since my cylinders are corroded and will need to be corrected inorder to be rebuilt; I will let you all know what I wind up doing to fix the problem. I've been studying the way the Fairchild master brake cylinders were built and have decided that fabricating new stainless steel cylinders for the master brake would not be impossible, if I can't find someone that can sleeve them with stainless sleeves.
> > > Thanks again.
> > > Rich Seifert
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

[AlanM]

'Jim
Do you have a link on the master cylinders.Thanks Alan

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "higham_jim" wrote:
>
> Hi Roger
> I know your not inquiring about changing your brakes, but I installed Cleveland wheel and brakes last year on my F24R46. Then I replaced my master cylinders with Gar-Kenyon 17000 with a remote mounted reservoir, making servicing with 5606 a breeze. The small displacement master cylinders give great control and pedal feel. Then this past winter the owner of F24R46 N81363 Leon Whelchel installed the same setup and so far likes it. I installed both with field approvals. Now if you are not interested in changing your brakes, Leon might have his original master cylinders for sale.
> Jim Higham
> F24R46A
> N81207
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Roger
> > I did have Sierra Specialty Automotive (530-283-1886) sleeve my master cylinders. Mine are for a 1946 F-24W, which is still a long way from flying but I have no doubt they will work just fine. My cylinders are not castings. They were called tin can master cylinders and were an assembly of machined steel cylinder, sheet metal can type reservoir, and sheet metal attach fittings all brazed together. The original ID plate attached to the cylinders identified them as Wagner Electric Corporation # FE2014. Sierra Specialty Automotive machined out the old cylinders and installed the brass sleeves and I installed the brake kits. I think Joe at Sierra Specialty Automotive said the cylinders are 1937 - 41 Chrysler master brake cylinders. I am happy with their work but I did have to heat and streach out the snap ring to securily retain all the innerds. You do have to pick and choose between the original brake parts and the replacement parts. I used a NAPA #1 brake kit for the rubber parts but retained the original brass pistons, and thin brass washers which act as check valves. The remainder of the kit was discarded. The machining cost was $110.00 each. I thought I took pictures of the cylinders before installing the brake kits but have been unable to find them so far. I will be happy help If you have any other questions.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ellengstarr
> > To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:10 PM
> > Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
> >
> >
> >
> > Rich,
> > Wondering what you were able to come up with regarding sleeving your cylinders? I have a 24W with 1 1/4" bore. Believe they are original type.
> > One place looked at them and said the casting would be too thin after machining for the sleeve. So I am back to square one!
> > Thanks.
> > Roger Starr
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Bob, Tom, and Jamie for the brake info.
> > > Since my cylinders are corroded and will need to be corrected inorder to be rebuilt; I will let you all know what I wind up doing to fix the problem. I've been studying the way the Fairchild master brake cylinders were built and have decided that fabricating new stainless steel cylinders for the master brake would not be impossible, if I can't find someone that can sleeve them with stainless sleeves.
> > > Thanks again.
> > > Rich Seifert
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

'

[Jim higham]

'Yes, I used the originals

-----Original Message-----
From: AlanM
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 9:43 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info


Jim
Do you have a link on the master cylinders.Thanks Alan

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "higham_jim" wrote:
>
> Hi Roger
> I know your not inquiring about changing your brakes, but I installed Cleveland wheel and brakes last year on my F24R46. Then I replaced my master cylinders with Gar-Kenyon 17000 with a remote mounted reservoir, making servicing with 5606 a breeze. The small displacement master cylinders give great control and pedal feel. Then this past winter the owner of F24R46 N81363 Leon Whelchel installed the same setup and so far likes it. I installed both with field approvals. Now if you are not interested in changing your brakes, Leon might have his original master cylinders for sale.
> Jim Higham
> F24R46A
> N81207
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Roger
> > I did have Sierra Specialty Automotive (530-283-1886) sleeve my master cylinders. Mine are for a 1946 F-24W, which is still a long way from flying but I have no doubt they will work just fine. My cylinders are not castings. They were called tin can master cylinders and were an assembly of machined steel cylinder, sheet metal can type reservoir, and sheet metal attach fittings all brazed together. The original ID plate attached to the cylinders identified them as Wagner Electric Corporation # FE2014. Sierra Specialty Automotive machined out the old cylinders and installed the brass sleeves and I installed the brake kits. I think Joe at Sierra Specialty Automotive said the cylinders are 1937 - 41 Chrysler master brake cylinders. I am happy with their work but I did have to heat and streach out the snap ring to securily retain all the innerds. You do have to pick and choose between the original brake parts and the replacement parts. I used a NAPA #1 brake kit for the rubber parts but retained the original brass pistons, and thin brass washers which act as check valves. The remainder of the kit was discarded. The machining cost was $110.00 each. I thought I took pictures of the cylinders before installing the brake kits but have been unable to find them so far. I will be happy help If you have any other questions.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ellengstarr
> > To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:10 PM
> > Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: F-24 Master Brake Info
> >
> >
> >
> > Rich,
> > Wondering what you were able to come up with regarding sleeving your cylinders? I have a 24W with 1 1/4" bore. Believe they are original type.
> > One place looked at them and said the casting would be too thin after machining for the sleeve. So I am back to square one!
> > Thanks.
> > Roger Starr
> >
> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seifert" wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Bob, Tom, and Jamie for the brake info.
> > > Since my cylinders are corroded and will need to be corrected inorder to be rebuilt; I will let you all know what I wind up doing to fix the problem. I've been studying the way the Fairchild master brake cylinders were built and have decided that fabricating new stainless steel cylinders for the master brake would not be impossible, if I can't find someone that can sleeve them with stainless sleeves.
> > > Thanks again.
> > > Rich Seifert
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>




[The entire original message is not included]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'