Re: Ranger Engine Question

jwm1801 · Post by **jwm1801** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:47 am

'3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON'

Airy Millet · Post by **Airy Millet** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:00 am

'check the Vernatherm

check the breather "mouth" position...not tobe fully on the airflow outlet of your cowlings (should be enough under the cowlings)...(there may be a venturi effect if the breather tube is too short).

How fast do you turn the engine?
I 'll recommend not to run faster than 1900/1950rpm at cruise, for first flights and even later.. (depending on your props).

Was your scavenge pump OK?
are your exhausts pipes "greasy" somehow?

Airy

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: obliquephoto@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 13:47:34 +0000
Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger Engine Question

3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Cy Galley · Post by **Cy Galley** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:09 am

'Rings haven't seated. Might take up to 50 hours. If you have a worry after
about 10 hours, do a compression check to see which cylinder is bad. As for
now, probably all cylinders have excessive blow by.

Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963

www.eaa75.com

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jwm1801
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 8:48 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger Engine Question

3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past
weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I
used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the
accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to
break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her
for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the
breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line
is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE
HELP!! JON

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Cy Galley · Post by **Cy Galley** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:11 am

'P.S. buy more oil! It is cheap. If you have a CHT gage, when the
rings seat, the Cylinder Head Temperature will show a marked drop in
temperature.

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jwm1801
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 8:48 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger Engine Question

3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past
weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I
used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the
accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to
break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her
for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the
breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line
is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE
HELP!! JON

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Cy Galley · Post by **Cy Galley** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:19 am

'Do you have a scavenge pump and is it turning?

From: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jwm1801
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 8:48 AM
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fairchildclub] Ranger Engine Question

3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past
weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I
used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the
accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to
break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her
for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the
breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line
is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE
HELP!! JON

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]'

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:28 am

'Jon,

You are looking at more than three GALLONS of oil per hour. This is seriously wrong. Three quarts per hour might be unseated rings, but I doubt that three GALLONS per hour could get past the rings.

I suspect that you have the plumbing installed wrong. Any pictures? Mine is an earlier model with the oil cooler hanging out the bottom of the cowl, so seeing mine wouldn't help as much as seeing a later model. Where are you located?

Are you possibly running the engine to fast? Have you got a non-standard propeller? Do you have a manifold pressure gauge?

Hope you can get it sorted out soon.

Bob Waldron
1939 Fairchild 24K
Webster, MN

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "jwm1801" wrote:
>
> 3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
>

'

jwm1801 · Post by **jwm1801** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:57 am

'Maybe I have been running the engine too fast. Not being too familiar with this engine I always thought it was good to run a higher RPM during breakin. I have be fluctuating my throttle from 2150-2300 in 10-15 minuet intervals. I have an engine analyzer which give me reading on all 6 cylinders. All temps are close in the 1200-1350 range. The engine breather extends from the bottom cowl 1". Maybe this is not enough. Does this really create a suction if too short? The inside of the stacks are black. I also have a pesco wet pump hooked up with an air oil separator. No oil appears to be coming out of the overflow for the separator. I have the oil return line for the vacuum system ported back to the accessory case to the port to the right of the vacuum pump. Thoughts? Yes I have a scavenge pump. Don't know how to check to make sure it is running but I took the hose fitting off the line that comes from the pump to the oil cooler and it was full of oil. Frustrating... JON

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" wrote:
>
> Jon,
>
> You are looking at more than three GALLONS of oil per hour. This is seriously wrong. Three quarts per hour might be unseated rings, but I doubt that three GALLONS per hour could get past the rings.
>
> I suspect that you have the plumbing installed wrong. Any pictures? Mine is an earlier model with the oil cooler hanging out the bottom of the cowl, so seeing mine wouldn't help as much as seeing a later model. Where are you located?
>
> Are you possibly running the engine to fast? Have you got a non-standard propeller? Do you have a manifold pressure gauge?
>
> Hope you can get it sorted out soon.
>
> Bob Waldron
> 1939 Fairchild 24K
> Webster, MN
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "jwm1801" wrote:
> >
> > 3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
> >
>

'

Airy Millet · Post by **Airy Millet** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:32 am

'Yes, I confirm (we tested several position) that the cut shape and position of breather line outlet is important! (longer it is, farther under the plane belly you'll find oil drips'

))
(when too short, you have oil from the firewall and all along the fuselage belly... ).
And I can ensure that airflow through cylinders and airflow running out of the cowling from under is a quite fast airflow!

2150/2300rpm, are very high for this engine!!

Inside of stacks are black...of course...but between fingers does it feel "wet" (oily) or "dry" (like powder)!

Now you have run your engine several 10-15minutes intervals, check the magnetics fingers in the bottom of the engine (under the scavenge pump) [take care, some quarts/liters will flow out when opening there, as the scavenge pump, and camshaftcase will drain out].

and last question, which kind of oil do you use for breaking runs?? (I personnaly recommend mineral 100% Aero100 in "normal" climate, and Aero120 in "warm" climate).

Airy

To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
From: obliquephoto@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:56:38 +0000
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Ranger Engine Question

Maybe I have been running the engine too fast. Not being too familiar with this engine I always thought it was good to run a higher RPM during breakin. I have be fluctuating my throttle from 2150-2300 in 10-15 minuet intervals. I have an engine analyzer which give me reading on all 6 cylinders. All temps are close in the 1200-1350 range. The engine breather extends from the bottom cowl 1". Maybe this is not enough. Does this really create a suction if too short? The inside of the stacks are black. I also have a pesco wet pump hooked up with an air oil separator. No oil appears to be coming out of the overflow for the separator. I have the oil return line for the vacuum system ported back to the accessory case to the port to the right of the vacuum pump. Thoughts? Yes I have a scavenge pump. Don't know how to check to make sure it is running but I took the hose fitting off the line that comes from the pump to the oil cooler and it was full of oil. Frustrating... JON

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" wrote:
>
> Jon,
>
> You are looking at more than three GALLONS of oil per hour. This is seriously wrong. Three quarts per hour might be unseated rings, but I doubt that three GALLONS per hour could get past the rings.
>
> I suspect that you have the plumbing installed wrong. Any pictures? Mine is an earlier model with the oil cooler hanging out the bottom of the cowl, so seeing mine wouldn't help as much as seeing a later model. Where are you located?
>
> Are you possibly running the engine to fast? Have you got a non-standard propeller? Do you have a manifold pressure gauge?
>
> Hope you can get it sorted out soon.
>
> Bob Waldron
> 1939 Fairchild 24K
> Webster, MN
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "jwm1801" wrote:
> >
> > 3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

jameslbryan@btopenworld.com · Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:05 am

'Hi John
Lets be clear I am no expert but I have been operating a 200hp ranger engined
f24 in the UK for the last 6 years.
I have now got my oil consumption under control and down to less than half a
litre and hour from over 2 gallons at high rpm.
When I bought the plane It used allot like yours and I lived with it for a
while. I checked the rpm( using a model aircraft tacho) and gauge rpm there was
a difference!!!!
I thought I was setting 2000 odd but the actual was much higher...........as
soon as I bought the rpm back to the book figure the consumption reduced
......................but it was still blowing it out the breather at anything
from 3 to 6 litres a hour ....................not good for touring.
This winter I have performed a proper top end overhaul and and changed the valve
guides as they were badly worn.............the piston rings and the usual
de- glazing of the cylinders and the differance is amazing..............I cant
remember when I last put oil in her.
When I first bought her she was meant to have had a top end overhaul but they
obviously had`nt done the valve guides ...as they were very worn.
The strange thing was the compressions were ok?
I am sure the guys will have a answer for you but this turned out to be
my particular problem others I am sure will have other solutions.
Best regards
James

________________________________
From: jwm1801
To: fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 18 April, 2011 15:56:38
Subject: [fairchildclub] Re: Ranger Engine Question

Maybe I have been running the engine too fast. Not being too familiar with this
engine I always thought it was good to run a higher RPM during breakin. I have
be fluctuating my throttle from 2150-2300 in 10-15 minuet intervals. I have an
engine analyzer which give me reading on all 6 cylinders. All temps are close
in the 1200-1350 range. The engine breather extends from the bottom cowl 1".
Maybe this is not enough. Does this really create a suction if too short? The
inside of the stacks are black. I also have a pesco wet pump hooked up with an
air oil separator. No oil appears to be coming out of the overflow for the
separator. I have the oil return line for the vacuum system ported back to the
accessory case to the port to the right of the vacuum pump. Thoughts? Yes I
have a scavenge pump. Don't know how to check to make sure it is running but I
took the hose fitting off the line that comes from the pump to the oil cooler
and it was full of oil. Frustrating... JON

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" wrote:
>
> Jon,
>
> You are looking at more than three GALLONS of oil per hour. This is seriously
>wrong. Three quarts per hour might be unseated rings, but I doubt that three
>GALLONS per hour could get past the rings.
>
> I suspect that you have the plumbing installed wrong. Any pictures? Mine is
>an earlier model with the oil cooler hanging out the bottom of the cowl, so
>seeing mine wouldn't help as much as seeing a later model. Where are you
>located?
>
> Are you possibly running the engine to fast? Have you got a non-standard
>propeller? Do you have a manifold pressure gauge?
>
> Hope you can get it sorted out soon.
>
> Bob Waldron
> 1939 Fairchild 24K
> Webster, MN
>
>
> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "jwm1801" wrote:
> >
> > 3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past
>weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used
>a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the
>accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to
>break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her
>for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather
>line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer
>then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

'

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:12 am

'I'm sure you meant to say 2.5 Quarts, not 2.5 Gallons. Don't panic, there are about four things you can do to keep from pumping perfectly good oil out the breather system, and covering the belly of you brand Fairchild.
Tom
Hanford,Ca

--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "jwm1801" wrote:
>
> 3.5 years and 500 hours- my Fairchild 24R46 had its first flight this past weekend. What a thrill and a terrific flying airplane. The bad news is I used a tremendous amount of oil. Engine has a fresh overhaul as does all the accessories including the oil cooler. I thought it might just need to run to break in but I now think something else is going on. This morning I flew her for 45 minuets and used 2.5 gallons of oil. Oil is coming out of the breather line and all over the belly. Oil cooler is warm but breather line is warmer then the oil return line. Any on have any suggestions??? PLEASE HELP!! JON
>

'