Catastrophic engine failure

[danMichael]

'On Sunday, May 29, 2005, at 09:47 PM, Tom Mueller wrote:

> I never used the procedure because I felt it complicated the start
> process, and left the door open to forgetting to put the mag in "BOTH"
> after starting. Needless to say I'm rethinking my starting procedure.
>
> Tom
> Hanford, Ca.

On Sunday, May 29, 2005, at 11:21 PM, John Amundsen wrote:

> I follow the procedure in the Fairchild manual to spin the engine over
> with the mags off until enough momentum is gained and then switch to
> the left mag. I thne switch to both. I have forgotten to switch to
> both, but catch it on my engine runup. I pull the engine through
> before trying to start the engine.

After pulling the engine through 12 compression strokes by hand, I
crank the engine with the left mag energized and switch to both after
starting. I do this because only the left mag has an impulse coupling
and I want to avoid the possibility of a kickback if the right mag
fires at 25 degrees before TDC at cranking RPM. I dont want to operate
the mag switch while cranking because I am afraid of overshooting the
"Left" position and energizing the right mag (either by switching to
"Right" or between indents, which energizes both).

:Dan
:NC81323

'

[Bob Webster]

'

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Danielle"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Catastrophic engine failure


> The E-80 Eclipse starter clutch is set for 285# for the Ranger. You are
> correct about radials. I flew C-47's in 'Nam. Our procedure was to turn
> the engine and count blades - 18, I believe - then turn on the mags. This
> might not be a bad procedure with the Ranger. Don't know why the Ranger
ops
> manual doesn't call for it.
> ----- Original Message -----

Being as the Ranger is a four stroke cycle engine ( the last time I looked )
two full rotations of the engine should cover all the cylinders. I have a
fair amount of experience on the R-2600 Wright (B-25), the Pratt & Whitney
R-2800 (Douglas A or B-26) and more experience than I wanted on the Pratt
R-4360 (KC-97). On the three bladed props, six blades would do the job,
eight on the four blades and four blades should do it on the two bladed
Rangers. I pull mine through to save the starter a little extra work.

Bob

'

[John Berendt]

'Mike,

were did you post the photos of the brake in the rod.
could you send the club a copy to use in the flyer.I pull my Pt through each
time by hand,but then we have to hand crank it and I do not believe the
spring starter has enough force to beak a rod.

John Berendt
Fairchild club

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Danielle"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Catastrophic engine failure


> The break was just where it shows in the photo. I believe the starter
> clutch would have slipped if it had encountered the lock. The problem
> probably started with any other cylinder firing first. This is all just
> conjecture, though. It could have just been a microscopic crack or flaw
in
> the rod casting. I'll probably never know.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Servaites"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Catastrophic engine failure
>
>
> > Did the rod break near the wrist pin area? It looks like a clean break
> > right across the I-beam. Do you think that just the power of the starter
> > against the hydraulic lock could bend a rod? I would think not unless
> > one of the cylinders fired?
> >
> > --
> > Jan Servaites (Dayton OH - The Birthplace of Aviation)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

[Thane]

'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Danielle"
wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> My '29 Great Lakes replica is powered by a 200hp Ranger. On 23 May
> while at a cruise setting of 1950rpm, the No.6 connecting rod
> broke. I have posted a new photo folder (Engine Destruction) to
> show the folks here the results of the incident.
>
> I was able to land in a hayfield without further incident.
>
> I am the third owner of this aircraft and the engine has only about
> 80 hours on the clock. The engine was certified when installed (per
> the FAA) but I have no history on the overhauler.
>
> My best guess is that somewhere, sometime in it's past, the engine
> was started with a minor hydraulic lock in the No. 6 cylinder which
> bent the rod slightly. The damaged rod continued to degrade until
> it gave up the ghost with the pictured results.
>
> Guys, it's imperative to pull your Ranger's through all cylinders
> before EVERY start (Warners too). If one jug is tight, STOP. Pull
> it through in reverse to dump the oil into the intake or pull the
> plug. My practice is to pull the engine through even if I'm only
> shutdown for a 15 minute refuel. You only have to do this kind of
> damage once to get a chance to test your off-field landing skills.
>
> Fly safe,
> Mike in Oregon

I don't mean to be a smart ass but the photos you posted show the #1
cylinder connecting rod hanging out and broken off. The Ranger engine
Cylinders are numbered from back to front. I sure hope it wasn't setup
that way? If it was I think this could explain your broken rod.

Thane'

[BOB DUNN]

'GUYS, THE INFO I HAVE ON THE RANGER IS TO PULL THE
PROP THROUGH SEVEN (7) BLADES TO CLEAR OIL FROM THE
CYLINDERS. MY THOUGHT IS, IF 7 IS GOOD, 14 SHOULD BE
BETTER. NORMALLY, I DO NOT GET ANY OIL RUNNING OUT THE
STACKS. HOWEVER, OCCASIONALLY, THERE WILL BE A GOOD
BIT OF OIL DRIP OUT OF THE EXHAUSTS. THAT'S WHY I KEEP
A RATHER LARGE DRIP PAN UNDER THE ENGINE. AFTER
PULLING THE PROP THROUGH, LET IT SIT FOR 3 OR 4
MINUTES TO SEE IF OIL IS PUSHED FROM THE CYLINDERS.
BETTER THAN A BENT ROD OR BLOWN HEAD.

BOB DUNN bobaviator@yahoo.com

--- Bob Webster wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Danielle"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [fairchildclub] Catastrophic engine
> failure
>
>
> > The E-80 Eclipse starter clutch is set for 285#
> for the Ranger. You are
> > correct about radials. I flew C-47's in 'Nam.
> Our procedure was to turn
> > the engine and count blades - 18, I believe - then
> turn on the mags. This
> > might not be a bad procedure with the Ranger.
> Don't know why the Ranger
> ops
> > manual doesn't call for it.
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> Being as the Ranger is a four stroke cycle engine (
> the last time I looked )
> two full rotations of the engine should cover all
> the cylinders. I have a
> fair amount of experience on the R-2600 Wright
> (B-25), the Pratt & Whitney
> R-2800 (Douglas A or B-26) and more experience than
> I wanted on the Pratt
> R-4360 (KC-97). On the three bladed props, six
> blades would do the job,
> eight on the four blades and four blades should do
> it on the two bladed
> Rangers. I pull mine through to save the starter a
> little extra work.
>
> Bob
>
>

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[Tom Downey]

'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, BOB DUNN wrote:

> GUYS, THE INFO I HAVE ON THE RANGER IS TO PULL THE
> PROP THROUGH SEVEN (7) BLADES TO CLEAR OIL FROM THE
> CYLINDERS. MY THOUGHT IS, IF 7 IS GOOD, 14 SHOULD BE
> BETTER. NORMALLY, I DO NOT GET ANY OIL RUNNING OUT THE
> STACKS. HOWEVER, OCCASIONALLY, THERE WILL BE A GOOD
> BIT OF OIL DRIP OUT OF THE EXHAUSTS. THAT'S WHY I KEEP
> A RATHER LARGE DRIP PAN UNDER THE ENGINE. AFTER
> PULLING THE PROP THROUGH, LET IT SIT FOR 3 OR 4
> MINUTES TO SEE IF OIL IS PUSHED FROM THE CYLINDERS.
> BETTER THAN A BENT ROD OR BLOWN HEAD.
>
> BOB DUNN bobaviator@y...
>

Bob, how many revolutions of the crank shaft does it require to fire
all cylinders, in any 4 stroke engine?

And if that engine is a direct drive, with a two blade prop, how many
blades would that be?'

[ranger440c5]

'--- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Downey" wrote:

> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, BOB DUNN

wrote:

> > GUYS, THE INFO I HAVE ON THE RANGER IS TO PULL THE
> > PROP THROUGH SEVEN (7) BLADES TO CLEAR OIL FROM THE
> > CYLINDERS. MY THOUGHT IS, IF 7 IS GOOD, 14 SHOULD BE
> > BETTER. NORMALLY, I DO NOT GET ANY OIL RUNNING OUT THE
> > STACKS. HOWEVER, OCCASIONALLY, THERE WILL BE A GOOD
> > BIT OF OIL DRIP OUT OF THE EXHAUSTS. THAT'S WHY I KEEP
> > A RATHER LARGE DRIP PAN UNDER THE ENGINE. AFTER
> > PULLING THE PROP THROUGH, LET IT SIT FOR 3 OR 4
> > MINUTES TO SEE IF OIL IS PUSHED FROM THE CYLINDERS.
> > BETTER THAN A BENT ROD OR BLOWN HEAD.
> >
> > BOB DUNN bobaviator@y...
> >
> Bob, how many revolutions of the crank shaft does it require to

fire

> all cylinders, in any 4 stroke engine?
>
> And if that engine is a direct drive, with a two blade prop, how

many

> blades would that be?

Right you are Tom......that would be 720 degrees and 4 blades. An
exception is a Caminez, all cylinders fire in 360 degrees of crank
rotation. But that's not really a crankshaft...more
like a camshaft, but it is a standard 4 stroke engine. The other
factor in counting blades is PSRU (propeller speed reduction units).
Big geared radials would take even less blades to make the minimum
720 degrees of crankshaft rotation...I.E. @2:1 (Rotax 912 is 2.21:1)
ratio, prop needs to
go 'round once for all cylinders to pass thru firing stroke. Of
course more doesn't really hurt...unless the P lead fell of that left
mag and.......'

[Michael Denest]

'With the mag switch showing "off" and the throttle
fully closed, I pull six clicks of the impulse
coupling. That way I at least get every cylinder.

--- ranger440c5 wrote:

> --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Downey"
> wrote:
> > --- In fairchildclub@yahoogroups.com, BOB DUNN
>
> wrote:
> > > GUYS, THE INFO I HAVE ON THE RANGER IS TO PULL
> THE
> > > PROP THROUGH SEVEN (7) BLADES TO CLEAR OIL FROM
> THE
> > > CYLINDERS. MY THOUGHT IS, IF 7 IS GOOD, 14
> SHOULD BE
> > > BETTER. NORMALLY, I DO NOT GET ANY OIL RUNNING
> OUT THE
> > > STACKS. HOWEVER, OCCASIONALLY, THERE WILL BE A
> GOOD
> > > BIT OF OIL DRIP OUT OF THE EXHAUSTS. THAT'S WHY
> I KEEP
> > > A RATHER LARGE DRIP PAN UNDER THE ENGINE. AFTER
> > > PULLING THE PROP THROUGH, LET IT SIT FOR 3 OR 4
> > > MINUTES TO SEE IF OIL IS PUSHED FROM THE
> CYLINDERS.
> > > BETTER THAN A BENT ROD OR BLOWN HEAD.
> > >
> > > BOB DUNN bobaviator@y...
> > >
> > Bob, how many revolutions of the crank shaft does
> it require to
> fire
> > all cylinders, in any 4 stroke engine?
> >
> > And if that engine is a direct drive, with a two
> blade prop, how
> many
> > blades would that be?
>
>
> Right you are Tom......that would be 720 degrees
> and 4 blades. An
> exception is a Caminez, all cylinders fire in 360
> degrees of crank
> rotation. But that's not really a crankshaft...more
> like a camshaft, but it is a standard 4 stroke
> engine. The other
> factor in counting blades is PSRU (propeller speed
> reduction units).
> Big geared radials would take even less blades to
> make the minimum
> 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation...I.E. @2:1
> (Rotax 912 is 2.21:1)
> ratio, prop needs to
> go 'round once for all cylinders to pass thru firing
> stroke. Of
> course more doesn't really hurt...unless the P lead
> fell of that left
> mag and.......
>
>
>

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[Michael Danielle]

'A note to this group concerning the cause of the No 1 rod breaking on
my 440 C5 engine. My friend Joe Denest was shipped the engine and
took a look. He commented that the rods on this engine were
polished. Polished rods were the norm on the 175 Rangers but when the
company upped the HP to 200, the rods were left as cast. The feeling
was that no metal should be removed from the rods to increase their
strength. Is this why the rod broke across the I beam? Dunno. It's
as good an explanation as any. Just wanted to pass this along.

Mike in Oregon'